Whats holdin me back?!?! UPDATE!

[JDSkier91]

Hey everyone! I just came across this site the other day. I have to say it's pretty cool there is a group like this. I just got my 91 Advance last summer and I love it! I'm wondering if anyone has any advice for my current dilemma. I dont think I am getting the power I should out of the boat right now. I was pulling a wakeboarder with just me and 3 other people in the boat and it was really struggling. Today I took it out, and with just me in the boat I could only get it up to 33mph @ 3000rpms.

Could it be the prop? The guy I bought it from put a 4 blade prop on the boat.

Could it be the timing? It occasionally backfires when I try to start it and it has been doing this weird thing where it will start right up (on a cold start), run for a couple minutes then just shut off. After that I cant get it started unless I let it sit for a few minutes. It might do that a couple times then its fine for the rest of the day.

ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRICIATED!
Here are my specs:
91 Advance, 351 W, 4160 Holly Carb (automotive model, came that way)  

[Mike Harry]

First thing you need to do is put a marine Carb on that thing for safety sake. I don't know much about props but Dan T does so I hope he chimes in. I do recall him telling me you wont get as much pull with a 4 blade I think, but ill let him explain it way better than I can. As far as the timing, just put a light on it. If you don't have one parts stores rent them for free.

[JDSkier91]

gongchuan, I know you're right about the marine carb thing... I just hate that $500 set back. The only difference I could see between the Marine and auto 4160 was a protective coating, vent tubes, and about $250. I bought the vent tubes thinking I could just throw those on and call it a day. 1 prob though... they don't fit

[phil]

JDSkier91,

Welcome and thanks for singing up on the forum.

Yeah, the marine carb is all about safety and I think everyone will probably say it's pretty dangerous to run without one. You need the J-tubes, and also I think the throttle shafts are a bit different to prevent fuel from leaking out onto the manifold. I found a site that has refurbished ones with warranties for what seems like a pretty fair price. Here: http://www.nationalcarburetors.com/marine/fourbarrelholley.aspx   
It's going to still run you 220.00 but it would be worth it.  Or perhaps someone around here has a used one they are willing to let go for cheaper?

I think the performance issue you describe sounds like a timing issue. Maybe to far advanced? One of our resident gear heads will respond with better info..You'll also want to find out what prop size your running it should be stamped on the hub of the prop. A stock 351 with a 3 blade 13x13 would run 4400RPM or so.

[Joel]

I also have a 91 Advance with the same motor, etc.   Yep...  start with a marine grade carb - you can adjust a Holley easily - just google it for directions.  If it still has points & a condenser you may want to consider an electronic ignitor - for your Ford 351 engine a Petronix 1581 works well (this part # includes a new rotor with it).  I just installed it on my 351 - it took about 20 minutes and its a HUGE difference in performance.   Then get a timing light on her...

[Mike Harry]

You may want to talk to Brandon on the forum here. He may have a carb for sale. He is parting out his advance and may still have it floating around.

Also, how long have you had the boat? Has it ever ran faster or turned harder since you have owned it? When is the last time the plugs/wires/oil...... basic tunup been done?

I would also do a compression and leakdown test.

[chrisheile]

Are the marine carburetors made differently to compensate for being on an angle?  Thought I had heard that one time.

[Mike Harry]

I dont know for sure on the Holley, but my Edelbrock isnt any diff. except for the pump itself and some extra seals on the linkage shafts. There should be a plate that is under the carb that levels it out. (thats the way mine works anyhow).

[JDSkier91]

ok, well I have a friend who is going to put a timing light on it tomorrow. I guess we will see where that takes us.

 Joel, thanks for the Petronix 1581 reccomendation. I might have to give that one a try.

phil, thanks for showing me that site. I'm sure i can swing 220 and i dont have to worry about the boat going up in flames, so thats a plus!

gongchuan, also thanks for the help. The boat was running a little better when we first got it, but so much has been done since then. I had to replace the lifters, rebuild the carb, and a few other things. I have a hard time remembering, but I dont think I have ever seen her break 40. As far as tune up, I just changed the oil and filter, it also has a new fuel pump and filter, spark plugs where replaced last summer, I have not touched the wires.

I'm going to start with the engine wed. Take a second look at the prop, try to get some more info and let u guys know what I find.

[Mike Harry]

Why did you replace the lifters? and who built the carb? did you ever run it before the carb was built???

Only reason I ask is I had a buddy get his carb built and the idiot left a gasked out that led the fuel to being dumped into the motor...... bad situation.

[Pelvic Woo]

Welcome to the group!  Not to get off topic, but I think I saw your boat on a Facebook link - white with a blue stripe with the "slalom girl?"  Anyway, just wanted to say, nice boat...love the paint!

[Joel]

Unless its a barefoot boat (usually has a bigger motor) your Advance is not designed to go REALLY fast...  It should pull like a freight train out of the hole and get to the high 30s very quickly, but it wont go much faster.  Mine tops out at about 40 mph (on the installed speedometers - havent tried a GPS or radar gun).  The boat is not designed for top end speed - most people dont ski faster than 36 or so...  unless your one of those crazy barefootin' dudes - then all bets are OFF!!!!   

[lyman_ade]

Welcome to the group!  Not to get off topic, but I think I saw your boat on a Facebook link - white with a blue stripe with the "slalom girl?"  Anyway, just wanted to say, nice boat...love the paint!

Yeah...I think I saw this boat on facebook too.  Isnt the name "Tic Tic"?  Post more pics!!!

[JDSkier91]

gongchuan, I had to replace the lifters because one of them collapsed. This caused a ''tic tic" as lyman pointed out. It is NOT the name of the boat, I will have to give you the full story later. Lyman is just trying to be funny. The guy who rebuilt the carb did a good job, the performance was better.

Pelvic woo, thanks.  When I got the boat it was really chalky. I took the old lettering off because it was in bad shape, that’s when I realized the gel coat was a totally different color underneath.  I wet sanded the whole boat, put a few coats of 3M marine wax, then had a friend of mine cover the problem area with that blue strip and the logo. I actually got the logo off the facebook page and had him recreate it. The stripe and logo are just vinyl. If anyone needs help with that, I would be happy to point you in the right direction.

Joel, I’m perfectly happy with 40mph. I actually wakeboard more myself.  I am more concerned that it has trouble pulling a 2 person tube, and that it has trouble getting up to speed pulling a wakeboarder when I only have 3 people in the boat. I’m checking the points tomorrow.

[Midskier]

welcome aboard the board

if you have an advance w/ 351 she should run out in proper tune to about
4400 - 4600 rpm which usually translates to 43-44 mph
most 18' s run out about 42-43 mph
any skier topping out @ 3000 rpm / 30 mph has a problem
we can't help with bits and pieces of maybe this maybe that info

if your not making the power your not going to get the performance you should be.
if you are making the power and still not getting the correct performance the load has increased significantly

Dan T