Ski Boat Forum
General Category => General American Skier Discussions => Topic started by: Messer on January 18, 2010, 04:21:59 PM
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The Messer boat log
I bought my 84 Skier in Charleston in 2006. The boat came from the original owner (his family) who was selling off property after he lost his battle with cancer. His wife and kids kept the boat in a garage, used it well, but obviously didn’t do anything to it other than crank her and go..and return. It shows 800hrs on the meter but the lady said she dropped it off the summer before to a boat mechanic who rebuilt the engine and replaced the deck. Actual hours…about 20 on the new rebuild. (I personally believe the mechanic put an automotive long block in it and put the original marine specific parts back on it).
So, due to an incident with an alligator we didn’t ski in South Carolina at all, but rather a few summer days back home on Logan martin during leave. We chose to leave the boat on a farm and over two years she sat in limbo and accumulated some weathering…. Enough said.
Since I bought her I dropper her off at Roberts Sporting in Birmingham to have all the gauges and breakers rewired, blower replaced, new impeller, oil, plugs and electronic ignition installed.
She was running at about 200 degrees during our skiing so replaced the thermostat (actually added one to an empty hole) but no change. At that point I blew a freeze plug…sent it back to Roberts to replace and he advised the freeze plugs were tin vice brass (hence the idea that I have an automotive long block). After she continued to run warm I tested the water suction …it was less than desirable…checked the housing where the thermo was and sure enough…pieces of impeller lodged in there. Once I pulled them out, she pulls water like a champ. While trying to figure the temp issue I replaced the sending unit and gauge…from Autozone (late night purchase) only to find that an automotive sending unit does not work on true marine applications. A new marine sending unit corrected this but the gauge reads 190 consistently. I think I need a new gauge now….more on this later.
The boat runs like a champ and pulls like a maniac. However, even with the new electronic ignition she doesn’t fire right up after getting cold. If it has been a few weeks since starting her it takes a shot of starting fluid, then all is well. If anyone has any ideas before I do a carb rebuild, please let me know.
So I got the bug to get my boat and get her to good working condition and here I am. Over Christmas we pulled her to Mobile Alabama on the original trailer which even though is rough still pulls great and the bearings run nice and cool.
In an effort to get good tips on the refurbish I’ll post my business for all to comment or just silently refer to me as a goober with no mechanical skills.
So that brings me to today. Attached are a couple of pix of the boat. Since the sun showed up today I got outside and rewired the trailer getting all the lights working again ( I only had one working) and tightening up wired, plugs and such.
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Proof of minor progress! ;D
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Well, speaking on behalf of myself, another goober with no true mechanical skills, please post away. I'm all over this site asking all kinds of seemingly stupid questions... some worse, worser, worst than others ;) I've gotten 100% support from everyone on here - even with the "no brainers"... Its a good place to air out any problems you come across, seek advice, etc... I wont be much for advice (way too many guys on here that know a helluvalot more than me) but I'll be reading along just in case I come across the same problem :)
Good luck!
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as far as tough starting when cold, have you checked that your choke is operating correctly? when cold, it should only be open 1/16 of an inch. the coils in the choke eventually wear out and the coil doesn't have enough recoil to tighten back up. You can probably re-adjust it but chances are it won't do much good if the coil is worn out. I put a new one on mine 2 summers ago and it helped a lot. good thing is that they are fairly cheap (30 bucks or so if I recall correctly). mine always starts when cold but it requires a little bit of pumping with the throttle.
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I haven't yet, but I will. Thanks for the tip.. I'm gonna start searching for a book called "Carburetors for dummies" ...hopefully it will be next to the "boats for dummies" book I am already looking for.
I know my cousin had a set of PCMs in his 29ft Aquasport and put electronic ignitions (convert) in. After that they always fired right up, thats what I'm going for.
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I inherited this fender problem. At one time I took it off and tried to bend it back in place but didn't have the necessary tools, gave up and put her back on. I will start theprocess again soon. I'm thinking the best thing to do is take the fender to a trailer shop and get a new one made. This fender has a funny shape (read- not standard) and I have no idea what the cost will be.
Ron do you have any fenders in stock that wil fit this AmSki trailer (1984)? if not, does anyone have one?
Brandon, I'm not sure if our trailers match but I'd beinterested in a fender or two.
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Messer,
I believe we have the same trailer, almost exactly as both the fenders on mine were crushed also. I think you can just go to a trailer supply store and get a standard fender the same size and just cut the side to match the existing fender. Remember when you cut to leave a few "tabs" to bend to allow a spot for the plywood board to attach to. Northern tool may have the right diameter fender you are looking for. The midwest has Farm & Fleet or Big R stores that carry fenders. Maybe a Tractor Supply Store has them? Shouldn't be much more than $30 a fender, although it might not be galvanized. On your other post you were looking for a cover. I have a blue heavy cover that the last owner had made and it has skirts on the sides so you won't have to buff as much if you leave the boat outside! I will try to get a picture of it and post it, it think it is in OK shape?
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fenders are cheap about $20-$30 each for plain steel
local trailer shop cna get them easy enough
Ron or I can too but any savings would eaten by the shipping
Dan T
Midskier
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In trailer language you are asking for a slant-back fender typically used for boats
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ya see, what a great site.. "slant-back" I would never have known that and looked like a total goober at the trailer shop.
Books to find-
1. Boating for dummies
2. Carberators for dummies
3. trailers for dummies (new addition)
Appreciate all the info guys!
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New winch and strap- I think I saw a scribbling underneath my winch that said "Ron wuz here 1984".... The prior one was rusted. I went to buy a new cable and Bass Pro Shops had a sale and it was almost the same price to buy a new winch. 1200lbs rated, same as the old one.
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The deck was shot. Old, looked like it had never seen a drip of teak oil. Jagged, cracked, roough and ...the worst, someone was thoughtfull enough to put about ten coats of varnish on it, aged about a decade of course and peeling. So today I sanded on it for about four hours. It still needs finer sanding then eventual oil, but so far....
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Looking much better... :) I can only hope my swim platform cleans up as nice - got a lot of elbow grease & sweat to apply, but I'm sure it will clean up fairly well. Whats up with the port/stbd top-side supports??? I'm assuming those are compliments of the previous owner... Looks like they would hurt if one caught you on the shin - OUCH!
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The supports...yes I hate them...previous owner. I have a feeling that the bottom brackets may be sufffering from looseness, this probably due to water intrusion where they are mounted. Once I take the deck off for final sanding and oil I plan on inspecting the mounting holes. I looked from the inside today and where the brackets mount is not accessible without pulling the deck. I believe I will have to invest in some longer screws to bite into dry wood if I want to remount without those port and stbd hanging brackets.
if anyone has experienced loose mounting brackets such as this I'm all ears, especially any fix tips.
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The platform if like my boat is lag bolted into the transom, which is wood and I assume yours is also. The holes are wallowed out, which also would allow water into the transom, rot. My boat you can see where the platform brackets actually sucked in the gelcoat and transom when longer screws were used to get a "bite". Real fix is to remove rotted transom and replace. If your transom is not soft, you may get away with longer & larger diameter lags (silicone hole really good before inserting to help keep out water). Another thing you may be able to do is use a "toggle" bolt all the way thru the transom. I don't think you can access the back side of where the bolts would come thru, so toggles or a hole in the floor are the only option for thru bolting. By the way, they are not the hardware store toggle bolts, a place such as Fastenal or Lawson sells a stainless steel version (I will try to post a picture as they aren't exactly the same as hardware store toggles). If you fix it to remove the extra bracket, you now create the problem of color matching the gelcoat where the "added" bracket once attached! ??? Never ending battle!
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alot of carb problems are caused by vacume lines leaking or cloged up especiallly from fuel pump. I have a 87 advance that i found in pa. looked like it was well taken care of but must have sat for a while had to replace all the vac lines cause of dryrot. the fuel pump has a vacume assist ,iIwould fill the gas tank up but only burn about 8 gal before problems would start happining (starterfluid,hessitation and stalls) turns out the fuel pump was vac opperated and the first part of the tank(when full ) would gravity feed ok but when the pump would have to do the work the vac leaks would break the vac and no fuel would flow .Idont know if this would help but its a cheaper way to start.Also need to check the small filter at the carb fuel intake they get gummed up pretty bad if gas is left sitting in the motor over time . good luck!
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daveo,
I am a little nervous about your fuel pump. I haven't been a mechanic for a while, but I don't remember the mechanical fuel pumps having a "vacuum assist". I believe the line you are talking about is the vent line for the fuel pump diaphram. This allows the diaphram to move up and down to pump the fuel. The reason the line is on here (it is absent on a automotive fuel pump) is if the diaphram ruptures, the "leaking" fuel will be directed to the flame arrestor or carb. Leaking fuel in a bilge of a boat is a fire hazzard. On a car it will just leak to the ground. The line on this is usually a yellowish color Tygon line which is designed to seal itself off in the event of fire to stop feeding fuel to the fire. In the picture below the line on the far left is this line. The middle line which is steel is the fuel feed line to the carb. The line (no hose attached) is the incoming line from the fuel tank. As a note, the fuel lines should all be marine rated as they all are supposed to do the same as Tygon in the event of a fire. (Except the fuel fill although it has a different specific marine desigination.)
Note: these pictures are from a PCM Chevy motor, but the mechanical fuel pumps are the same concept
Brandon
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I agree 100% with the above response and the purpose of the extended vent line from the mechanical fuel pump is just that a vent line routed up to the spark arrester for marine applications.
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daveo
In thinking about what you said, your vent line to the fuel pump being plugged may have been enought to restrict the fuel pump from operating properly. If there is visible fuel in the vent line, (the reason the Tygon is transparent) REMOVE THE FUEL PUMP AND REPLACE WITH A NEW MARINE FUEL PUMP IMMEDIATLY! The worst thing to have leaking in a boat is raw fuel. Hope this helps.
Brandon
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the problem was that the line had melted to the manifold/riser (before I replaced risers) and had a big hole in it. I replaced it with a longer line and it seems to have corrected the problem. My problem with cutting out could also have been the fuel filter at the carb I cleaned that out at the same time i fixed the vac line.I have never had any fuel in that line but thanks for the heads up
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More minor progress- pulled the platform and refurbished it. Spent a few nights sanding (course to fine) and applying teal oil, then sanding after it dried with fine paper and reapplying teak oil. After I ran out of oil I quit and put her back on. I used 3m rubbing compound and wax to bring out the gelcoat a bit. Now I have to make the rest of the boat match!
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More minor progress- pulled the platform and refurbished it. Spent a few nights sanding (course to fine) and applying teal oil, then sanding after it dried with fine paper and reapplying teak oil. After I ran out of oil I quit and put her back on. I used 3m rubbing compound and wax to bring out the gelcoat a bit. Now I have to make the rest of the boat match!
Your swim deck looks great!
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I just looked at the pic earlier in your log of the winch, do me a favor & unwind it all the way & wind it back up from the bottom, the way it is now will allow the boat in a panic stop on the trailer to move up the bow stop gaining momemtum and will snap that strap. When wound from the bottom the strap will gain leverage against this & keep the boat on the trailer.
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The trick is in the details... Nice catch Ron!!!
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Ron,
Will do, thanks for the advice.
I got the parts the other day, thanks much... I've got stickers on everything!
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No updates... but I do know more about "Blow out Preventors", dispersants, tar balls, tar mats, and 5.8 billion in profits last quarter,,,umm I didn't see any profit, however I am spending most of my time fixing their problem so they can return to fat pockets of money...I digress. .. I recommended we plug the hole with all the politicians and useless government folks who are constantly in the way diverting attention from the problem with arranging overflights, briefs, meetings to plan meetings... I've seen enough of the Governors of LA, MS, Al and Fl, Secretary Napolitano, Commandant Allen, Pres Obama and every swingin Senator there is to fill a lifetime. ...but at the end of the day, gas prices will go up... I just want to go for a boat ride...maybe ski a minute...I'm deliriuos... Is it about to be Hurricane season??
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You mean that stuffing tires and golf balls won't fix the problem? Drill baby drill.
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I used to do what your doing in the USCG and thankfully I DONT do that anymore. Valdez was the same way in Alaska, as was the New Carissa in Oregon, with the Admiral & all the politicians grandstanding. The oil cleanup companys made a FORTUNE and didnt actually "clean up" much oil... The oil dispersants used are more toxic to the environment than the oil itself, but it makes the oil "magically go away" and the water look prettier... Containment boom is known as "Media Boom" cause all its good for is making it look like your doing something and the media LOVES to take pictures of it. Oil will entrain (go under) any size containment boom with a water current of only 1 knot - look at the boom thats deployed and MOST of it has oil on both sides. I dont envy your job today :(
In the end of the Valdez spill, Exxon changed thier name and are still making HUGE profits. Most of the local people were in court for over a decade trying to collect $$ awarded via the courts. Not sure if they ever got paid...
The trick is keeping it contained - once the oil, or hazardous materials (my current job), is out of the package, container, drum, ship, pipeline, etc... the battle is over - you've lost. Now all you can do is "mitigate" the impact which is a losing battle. This sort of thing happens in the Gulf about every 10 - 15 years, either by oil rig, or usually oil tanker...
Anyone for an oily tasting oyster or pre-oiled shrimp? ;)
O.K. enough of that... Lets talk about BOATS!!! I used your technique of sanding, oiling & sanding and my swim platform looks oh-so-much-better!!! I couldnt find any teak oil so I used "boiled" linseed oil... It looks thicker, but eventually soaks in and water runs off it like the back of a duck... and, its not slippery when wet - so I guess that'll do!!!
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Boats..yes, lord I apologize, bless the pygmies... I actually did make some advancement right before the drill mishap. - I changed the oil, fuel filter, gas, fixed the overflow on the tank (added a loop in the line as recommended here somewhere), plugs and bought a fresh battery. She turned over like a champ, but didn't fire immediately until I shot a line of starter fluid in the carb and loud pipes came alive. ..I went a bit further and used the 3m compund wax combo suggested by Dan and it really came out good. I have a compressor with a 5" sander that I strapped a wool pull over on, lighly applied the compound and let it sit for a few minutes then buffed for a while. After the woolly pad I switched to a linen cloth pad and the shine buffed up nice and glossy. I was actually surprised as it has been one of the things that actually went right. I'll post pix soon...
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It's alive.... fenders- new, platform- sanded and refurbished, trailer- new lights-decking pends, no starter fluid only two serious gooses of the throttle. I replaced one missing and one old exhasut flap, had to cut some off a new Malibu to fit, they are thicker and I hope they loosen up as I don't like the muffled soound... notice the new key float- thanks Ron... Gotta get back to the oil!
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbdYAPNLhsE)
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Here is my "still installed" automotive temp guage. I have the right sending unit but have yet to change this one. This is what is reads after I had her running for a while on the trailer... I have had concerns due to a desintegrated impellar which clogged up my thermostat housing and made her run hot. After I found the problem I have been worried ever since... I took a temp gun and the readings on the manifolds are between 100 and 120 degrees. the Port riser is a little hotter than the Stbd. The heads read around 100 degrees and the intake was a little cooler. Does any of this stand out as a problem to you guys?
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Temp looks about right to me...
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do you have a 160 t-stat? ............ it should be
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O.K.... So where are you at with the restoration project??? Lets see some pics!!!
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No progress... summer has been shot with BPs mess, now that I think of it, I need gas... anyway, planning to get back to playing in two weeks now that the hole is not gushing. Got leave and will take the boat to Logan Martin regardless of shape, somebody's getting dragged around!
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Yeah..... I was told by Ron that no matter what temp T-stat you are running it is hard to get a motor over 130 140ish on the trailer..... period.
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Holy cow I just wrote a book and it deleted it... this version will be much shorter..
It's been a while, BP is over for me as I have retired from the USCG and built a house on Logan Martin Lake. I put the boat in the water upon retirement last summer, regardless of problems and ran the stew out of it. We put over 130hrs on her with no real problems (ran oout of gas, damp distributer cap...only). So I'm back on the "get her up to speed kick" and have removed the interior for re-up. Doing this I decided to dig into a soft spot under the driver seat. have a look, do you any problems? ha!
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Somebody throw me a bone... how do I upload pix? I tried to add some with the "additional options" then browsed for them (saved to 640x480 or 72k each) but I get the message of " cannot upload...avatar something.
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Gonna have to hit up Phil for answers on uploading... He's the IT guy :) Glad to hear your back at it and CONGRATULATIONS on your retirement!!! Bravo Zulu!! From one Coastie to another!!
Hopefully, we'll be seeing you and your boat at this year's Reunion in TN!! Gonna be a blast - AGAIN!!
Joel
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Open up a Photobucket account. It's free. Then you down load your pics to Photobucket. They automaticallly get resized to fit onto the forum. Then you just to hightlight one of th URL addresses for each pic and then copy and paste into the thread. Unfortunately, there are like four different addresses for each pic that you can chose from. I'll get the specific one you want to highlight tonight when I get home because we're blocked from Photobucket at work so I can't access it. I'll post the specifics tonight for you.
It's easy and I have noticed that most here post the Thumbnails. Drives me a bit crazy but it's certainly an option. I prefer to have the full size pic post into the thread. It's much easier fro everyone to view that way IMHO.
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Somebody throw me a bone... how do I upload pix? I tried to add some with the "additional options" then browsed for them (saved to 640x480 or 72k each) but I get the message of " cannot upload...avatar something.
The media gallery is actually broke right now. I'm trying to find sometime to fix that. Actually, I'm looking to upgrade completely to a new photo gallery entirely. However, you should be able to upload picks into the forum section like backfoot recently did.
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I take it back. The permissions were not set correctly on a folder. Try again Messer, you should be able to do it now.
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Open up a Photobucket account. It's free. Then you down load your pics to Photobucket. They automaticallly get resized to fit onto the forum. Then you just to hightlight one of th URL addresses for each pic and then copy and paste into the thread. Unfortunately, there are like four different addresses for each pic that you can chose from. I'll get the specific one you want to highlight tonight when I get home because we're blocked from Photobucket at work so I can't access it. I'll post the specifics tonight for you.
It's easy and I have noticed that most here post the Thumbnails. Drives me a bit crazy but it's certainly an option. I prefer to have the full size pic post into the thread. It's much easier fro everyone to view that way IMHO.
When you get the photos downloaded to photobucket, the pic that you download will have options underneath the pic. Click on SHARE under the pic and it opens up another window that gives you options to share with facebook, twitter etc. At the top of that window is a tab labeled "Get Link Code". Click on that. It gives you 4 options. Some of the options have a two additional options (for thumbnail or full size). Click on the fullsize (vs. thumbnail) box labeled "IMG for bulletin boards and forums" and then click SAVE. Once you do this ALL the pics in your photobucket album are labeled with the IMG code for fullsize downloads to forums and bulletin boards.
Now all you have to do when you want to post a pic to a thread is click on that IMG code under the pic you want to post to highlight it. Then you you right click on that highlighted code and click "COPY". Then go back to the thread and right click where you want to insert it and then click "PASTE". The IMG code is pasted into the thread and when you preview it, the fullsize pic is in full view.
I know that it sounds like a lot to do, but once you get all the IMG codes on all of the pics in your album, each time time you post a pic is really easy. Open up a seperate window for Photobucket and one for the forum and you just copy and paste from one to the other. It's repetition for each pic. Once you do it a couple times you'll find it's very easy.
Hope this helps out.
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Lets try this again... when I cracked open the floor, this is what I found. Should I be concerned? @#$%^&
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Since that pic worked, here are a few more...
The stringer felt solid from my small insertion... The other pics are from sliding the cam inside and taking. I see a partition or bulkhead so I'm worried there is water back there as well...heck i'm worried that there is water under the entire floor. I'll never understand why no provision for drainage was made...
So disgusted I left it sitting and took a trip to the mountains, man Little River Canyon in North Alabama is nice... bet I could get a Comp Skier on that lake...
enjoy my latest issues.... ha, it's all good!
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Drag!!! makes me NOT want to look under my floor... Let us know how it goes.
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I know thats what mine has to look like. Keep us posted on the steps and tricks and whatnot you use.
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Needs a new floor, preferably composite, forward bulkhead is a foam stop, so foam could be injected ahead of the bulkhead. Unfortunately the foam after 25+ years is probably damp too. Thats the bad news, the good news is that this is a doable project that will cost a lot less than a new boat. I walked through the New Orleans Boat Show Saturday evening with my family $65K for a ski boat??? My son said, Dad we could buy (4) used Skiers, rebuild them & each of us have a boat for less than one new one!
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I walked through the New Orleans Boat Show Saturday evening with my family $65K for a ski boat??? My son said, Dad we could buy (4) used Skiers, rebuild them & each of us have a boat for less than one new one!
It seems that the they (at least in some cases) are pricing themselves right out of the market. I mean, how many people can really afford a 65K boat? You have to have a lot of extra money laying around... This is one reason we went with a Moomba Outback when we decided to purchase a late model boat. It's the only one that is even close to our price range! And still very expensive in my book.
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boat sits... I'm in denial... if I wish it away (floor problem) it may happen...
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Its really not that hard brother, especially if you dont mind cutting the "L" seat and fabing it back in after the floor repair.
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boat sits... I'm in denial... if I wish it away (floor problem) it may happen...
Yup, you definitely need a new floor. If you own anything that has a wood floor, this is just considered normal maintenance. It's going to happen sooner or later. Face it, it has to be done. I feel your pain though.
When I redid my floor I soaked everything in CPES before assembly. I bedded the floor to the stringers with an epoxy caulk and I used epoxy putty to seal every joint and the edge around the hull. I screwed the floor down to the stringers and then removed every one of them one at a time, shot the holes with CPES and screwed them back in. I had 2" holes drilled in the floor to pour the foam back in. After the foam cured, I carved out each of those holes at least a half inch deep and sealed them with the epoxy putty. Then I put three layers of glass over the top of it all. If I ever have to drill into the floor, I seal it before I screw anything into it. The complete floor is basically now an epoxy composite and I should never have to do it again. I didn't want to just replace it and end up doing it again in 10 years. I went out of my way to make it completely watertight and as epoxy soaked as I could get it so it couldn't rot from the bottom.
The floor under the observer seat was already getting soft when I bought the boat and it was only 6 years old at that time. I replaced the floor when the boat was 13-14 years old. It has now been 12-13 years since I redid the floor and it's as solid as the day I put it in.
As a side note, when you redo it you can get rid of those ankle-bangers (straps) holding up your swim platform. Geez, I got bloody toes just seeing pics of those straps. They should have been your first clue that the floor is rotting out from under you. The brackets for the platform are through-bolted and they're under floor level. As soon as the bolts got stripped out (or pulled out)the watertight integrity was compromised and the rot already started at that point. The straps were just a band aid until the rest of the floor got to the point it's at now.
I hate to be bearer of bad news but I would bet the plywood encased in the transom is probably completely rotted too. The only way I know of to fix that is to replace the transom but Ron, I'm sure knows of alternatives if there are any. When I replaced my exhaust tips recently, the plywood encased in the transom was completely dry, but there have never been any breaches in my transom either. When I replaced my floor, I replaced the platform bracket bolts and lock nuts. I glassed in the nuts on the inside so they couldn't possibly back out (even though they were locknuts) and I completely sealed every breach in the transom. Then I put a clear silcone seal around the edge of the platform bracket and each bolt head. The only problem with this installation is that the platform brackets are not removable at all without going through a lot of work. Like I said, I went to extreme lengths to make sure everything was watertight. It's far better than the factory ever could have been and I'm convinced it'll last long after I'm gone but only time will tell for sure. I'm very optimistic about it anyway.
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Hey brother I appreciate the info! I am taking it all in and getting the nerve to go out and start cutting. I do have to wait for the upholstery shop to get their part done and then I'm free to jump in. Until then, I'm going to a better place in my mind... it looks a lot like this past summer, have a look....
the last picture- my cousin who had never bought anything used in his life fell in love with my old American Skier. He tried his best to find one or buy mine (on short notice) and ended up buying the first fixer inboard he could. We'll bump the pontoon for Nautique room this summer.
Ya'll just bring a few tents and we'll have the reunion at my house.
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Its really not that hard brother, especially if you dont mind cutting the "L" seat and fabing it back in after the floor repair.
I've never heard of doing it this way. Seems like it would be a lot of exra time trying to fab it back together and fit properly. Not to mention that it has to be a lot harder working under the bow with the deck still there.
I removed the whole upper deck. Remove the rub rail and then make sure that you have everything disconnected from underneath the bow and the aft deck.
Speedo pickup tubes from each speedo, steering cable, throttle and shift cable. There is a quick connector at the engine for most of the wiring to the dash. Pull it apart and pull the harness back from the bow. Running lights, bildge pump overboard tube, Gas tank fill and vent hoses and then the blower hose. The air vent tubes running from the bow vent to the bildge have to come off then. When you're ready to remove the deck, get a couple friends and it lifts right off. Set it on a couple of sawhorses and you have complete access to the entire hulll. I didn't remove the engine or tranny. I got a large plastic bag and covered them up because it will get dusty.
Now you're ready for some real fun. On the plus side, you'll become intimately faliliar with how your boat is built and even more familiar with virtually every subsystem you can think of. Then you're done with it and get it back on the water, you'll feel an enormous sense of pride knowing you did it yourself.
Now is the perfect time to do it too. If your cousin has a CC that you can use while you're redoing your Skier, you'll still be able to get out on the water. Best of both worlds!!!!
Your Skier looks very cool by the way!!!!!
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That's the way I did it to Backfoot, but some folks don't want to take on the challenge of splitting the Hull from the deck, I've seen it done that way. Its just an alternative.
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Progress...slightly. Upholstery on hold due to ...well, I don't know, she is just slow. So I got outside and started ripping with hands. The previous owners boat guy simply laid plywood over the weakened original floor and glassed it in, kinda. I ripped that out with ease along with the carpet. Water on the stbd side on top of the foam. the foam there looks yellow still. The port side foam has water and it appears to have lost its integrity and soaked in.
From here- cutting tool to get the rest of the floor out, pull the tank and cut through to fix the dive platform, figure out how to cut the L seat and be able to re-attach it. I'll surely pull all the foam as well.
The good news so far is where I can check, the stringers are solid even with the water intrusion from years.
Enjoy my pain!
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Keep at it, Messer - be encouraged that you have others on this board that have done this before (myself with a 17' outboard runabout). If you need to replace stringers/transom material give SeaCast a consideration (transomrepair.net).
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FOAM... a four letter word with extreme emotional consequences.
Tip for getting foam out- I spent two hours and made about 2ft headway… I then took my wireless sawsall and criss-crossed the foam in squares about 2in deep, then hit it with the claw on the hammer and little squares like ice cubes just jumped out. The rest of the 12ft came out in about 25 minutes.
Stringers even though sopping wet (foam was water logged I should say) seem to be strong. I do have one area just in front of the motor where some jackleg drilled a big ass hole about ¼ wide in the stringer years ago to mount something. The hole seems deep and empty but the fiberglass around that stringer area is still strong. May pour some hardening goop in it…I don’t know. Most of the fiberglass is still hard and strong on the deck but the wood underneath mid beam was rotten under the glass, some unbelievably is still dry and strong from 1984. Cutting it all out though and will go back with ½ inch marine grade. The teary eyed point for me was cutting the L seat, hope I can make it strong when it goes back in.
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I have some very strange looking home-made tools for removing foam, from modified air-hammer chisels to shovels to 10' long wire whips for the air drill. Bottom line is to get it all out & use whatever you have to do it.....good job. Key to success when laminating anything during the repair is making sure it is DRY. I use fans to blow air into the stringer cavities to dry them before re-foaming or doing any glass repair.
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Messer,
That is one great looking Advance ! from the floor up of coarse. you have already jumped in with both feet and you will be successful. how could you not be a resource like this blog. I recently thanked Ron for all the help he provided me during my floor replacement this past fall, while I was at it I should have thanked Phil for the awsume job he has done putting this site together. personally, I would not have a clue how to do what he does, just glad he was inspired to do so !
I just posted some pictures on the gallery of my floor replacement in progress, you may find them helpfull, ( Keith's 85 Advance ). You may also like the way I mounted the swim plateform.
There are a lot of different ways of doing things, my advice, ask a lot of questions, combine all the knowledge, and do it the best you can with the resources you have.
Ron has a how to replace a floor tutorial somewhere in this forum, hands down if you get it from Ron you cannot go wrong, my guess, that guy never cut a corner in his life !
now that my boat is back in the water i can tell you replacing my rotten floor and water logged Foam was the best thing I could have done. the boat is as solid hitting a wake as it could be. the wake is smaller do to the boat being hundreds of pounds lighter, and the Hole Shot, unbelievable !
good luck, and keep us posted on your progress
Keith
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The foam came out pretty easy with the criss-cross cut and hit method...
Keith, how did you cut the glass so close to the hull? I've been using a jigsaw and sawsall. I have about 1in to 2.5in ledge all the way around. The stern is where I'm having issues since I want to whittle out the old glassed in bracket holders.
got my aluminum for brackets and center deck structure kinda like Mulberrrys...
My foam was waterlogged and heavy... probably not gonna put anything back in... whoever sold foam to the USCG could sell screen doors to a submarine captain!
Mulberry is a dead man for making this seem so easy....
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F.Y.I. to cut the glass all the way to the hull, I used a belt sander and like a 50 grit roll. Cut it clean and fast. Just my .02 cents
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I put a Long blade on my sawzaw, as long as I could get maybe 10''. then I could bend it and follow the hull. then, Like Mike, I used a Belt sander, Make sure you wear a mask as you do not want to subject your lungs to that Fiberglass dust ! if you have access to a grinder different attachments are available for it as well, like a wire wheel.
as far as omitting the foam, Ron wrote somewere that if the boat ever sunk you may have a tough time collecting from your insurance company if they find it was modified and does not meet USCG specifications. I would also thing it would be a benefit to get the boat to draft higher in the water and create a smaller wake. as a short line slalom skier I consider this Paramount, though it might not be important to you. installed properly it also provides structural properties as well. if you decide to install the foam, I can walk you through it at that time.
I can tell you that installing the foam was the most fun and not difficult, part A and B of the Foam would not be more than about 300.00 in material.
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Does anyone see a problem with not extending the deck al the way to the stern on the sides? I'm gonna install the new platform brackets soon and I want to have access to them in the future if I need to tighten or just remove them to buff the hull. I was thinking about leaving a 6in gap from the deck board to the stern in that area. thoughts?
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Can't say if its right or wrong but I did the same thing so I could reach everything coming through the transom if needed.
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I like the idea of closing the floor up, preventing water from getting under it, once it gets down there with or without foam it is not your friend.
take a look at the gallery. I posted a pic of what I did. it is a 2"X4"X1/4" aluminum Plate, with a threaded 3/8" hole in the middle. I attached it to the hull with 3M 5200 adhesive.
after spreading 3m on the entire back side of the plate hold it in place on the inside of the hull, have someone else hold the bracket in place and thead the bolt through the hole in the hull threading it into the plate. snug it down till the adheasive begins oozing from behind the plate. do not over tighten it, you want to maintain some adhesive behind the plate to hold it in place and also create a water tight seal. let this cure for a week before thinking about removing the bracket. in the mean time, you an cut the floor tightly around the plate if it is above the floor.
Fiberglss the floor into the transom to prevent water from ever getting below. it is a big enough problem with condensation below the floor, you don't want to worry about any water above the floor pouring back into a hole everytime you take off.
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Flooring should tie in the transom at least in the corners over the outside stringers, leaving a large "pocket" at the transom in the inboard stringers to access platform bolts is perfectly acceptable, this is how we did it in the later years but you should glass in the "pocket" & add a drain tube to the center to allow water to drain.
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Sorry this is so long...
I would stress that you should be sure to have limber holes in both the stringers and frames or make sure existing limber holes are adequately sealed and clear of debris. This will allow ensure any future water trapped outside the stringers has a way to drain into the bilge. I don't know why more boats don't have them or don't have more of them.
In my old 17' runabout stringer/frame/floor replacement project I built 4 limber holes in the stringers (2 in each) and glassed them up really well. Each frame (wood that's perpendicular to the stringers) also got 1.5" diameter limber hole in the lower corner where they came into contact with the stringer.
Once the frames were glassed in place, this created individual compartments in which to pour the 2 part foam and let it cure individually (easier but more time consuming than if I had poured the entire boat at once).
Here's where I got a little creative. Starting with the aft-most compartment first, I put a temporary 1.25" dia pipe passing through the first frame limber hole and pushed it all the way aft up against the transom. As I poured the foam in that compartment, I rotated the pipe so that it would not get foamed in place but would create a void up against the stringer-to-hull joint so that water can easily move forward and aft along the stringer and find the limber holes to drain into the bilge).
Once the foam cured in that particular compartment (a matter of minutes), I slid the pipe forward to the next compartment (leaving a couple inches of pipe in the previous compartment for overlap). Repeat until that side of the boat is completely foamed all the way forward.
Essentially this leaves a small void the full length of the stringer's outboard side of the stringer-to-hull joint. If any water gets under the floor out there, it should drain to the lowest point of the compartment and then find a limber hole to drain into the bilge.
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Thanks for the info, taking it all in... I'm so strapped for time but I will get it finished before May so I can drop her in the water (or suffer three little girls kneeboarding fury).. I have found my engine "model" end game. I would venture to say I may not get that done in time... have a look, it's out of a 77 Fish Tique.
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looks nice. Are you getting those exhaust pipes too?
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Hey Messer, the Motor looks nice but a there could be a couple issues here if you aren't aware of it.
If that motor is coming out of a CC, I would assume that the engine is reverse rotation unless it came with a 1.23 tranny which wasn't an option until '89. But again that was an option, the standard tranny was 1:1.
I don't know if A/S's were optioned with RR engines but I have to assume that yours currently is standard rotation like mine is. If that's the case, you'll have to reindex your tranny to spin opposite and then you'll be forced to get a RH prop after everything is all done. Or another option is getting another tranny like a 1:23 that opens another can of worms.
Putting a RH drivetrain on your boat could change your handling characteristics considerably but Ron may have to verify that aspect of it.
I just wanted to make sure you were aware of this possible SNAFU before you went ahead with it.
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A little more progress.. got the transom wood whittled out. It took longer than the rest of the the deck. broke the airguide pickups.. hope I can just put some air tube behind the copper tube to the transom and then use the airguide pickups (tournament pitot assembly) on skidim. Sounds too easy..
Keith- I like your bracket and now that I have dug in and whittled the wood out I notice it looks like your wood is still there. Do you think I need some more reinforcement for mine as I am going back in with an aluminum bracket as well but without any wood between the bracket and outer hull. It seems to be a big void though. Anybody's thought appreciated before I jump.
Gon- where did you get the multi colored American Skier sticker?
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Ron, Mulberry, Mike, Harry, Joel… other boat nuts- a few more items to bounce and ask before I go to the store if you don’t mind indulging me. Some may be redundant, sorry- scatterbrained at the moment.
Odd random questions-
Mulberry’s transom bracket looks great and I have mine ready, but think I will get the plyboard, glass new squares and then place the aluminum over that. I think that will make it the sturdiest even though I hate using wood back there, thoughts? http://www.amskierboats.com/forum/index.php/topic,101.15.html (http://www.amskierboats.com/forum/index.php/topic,101.15.html)
Do I have to glass in the below deck (underside of the plyboard) or can I just resin it in?
Mulberry- did you buy ss screws and bolts a few at a time or did you get a complete box of different kinds? If so, where?
Mulberry- how much matt did you use…read, how much do I need to go buy? If I read your post right you have three layers of mat on your floor (24oz, then 18oz, then 15oz) and once dried you went back with 1708 tape (6”, 45/45) to seal the edges or mate the deck to the sides better.
Q- couldn’t I just use the 24 or 18oz and run it up the sides a few inches?
And to confirm, you also used the “peanut butter” concoction to fill in gaps (prior to glass matt) between the deck and sides due to “un-straight” cuts, right?
Q- Mulberry- how many sheets of board did you buy? Was there any left over for odd jobs? Can I get it at a local Home Depot or Lowes?
Ron- I am planning on going back with ½” marine grade plyboard, .. do you see a need to add support under the new board (read bulkheads) or with the connection on the sides via 1” ss screws and peanutbutter/mat overlap be enough?
Thanks so much for you guys patience with me…
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Sorry for th delay,
when in doubt, I would install the wood backer if you think you need it.
but treat it as you would the floor, first coat of resin, thin, about 35 to 40% Acetone, this will allow penetration into the wood, a trick i learned from Ron. second coat, straight resin.
apply the same proceedure on the floor, both sides, matt not required on the underside.
if you need more advice on the fiberglass materials give me a call, I would be happy to help, Ron dialed me in on this, I can forward the info on to you.
Keith- 630-878-8226
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Thanks brother, that's what I am doing, it worried me to death... I am hopefully picking up the plyboard and resin in the morning and will get at it this weekend. I may call, thanks for offer!
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Moving along.... floor is cut... will button up tomorrow..
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wet glass, but in... still working on it..
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Ok, floor is in..solid and waterproof. Took the dive platform off to make the new bracket support, transom is bullet proof. The pix are from before I started cleaning the stern (sticker removal, scrubbed, wet sand with 600, 800 and 1000, then buffed with 3m rubbing compound and polish).
Next- sand blast outside swim deck brackets (hope they look good or I'll repaint black), refurb teak, install all components. After living on the coast for long I was spoiled with the abundance of boat stuff. You want a challenge, try to find a tube of 5200 in Talladega Alabama...
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Nicely done Messer. God , that dark blue looks so nice when it's cleaned up.
Keep after it. It's looking great.
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you've been busy messer, nice job ! were did you get your marine greade plywood at ?
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Backfoot- thanks brother, she should shine back up. Better pix later, those were from a phone.
K- I called Souther Star manufacturing in Sylacauga Alabam (close to me) www.southernstarmfg.com (http://www.southernstarmfg.com). They build boats and repair but were gracious enough to let me buy product from them. It was $58 dollars for a sheet of 1/2 inch. I realized that I could cut all the parts out of two boards, so I have one extra for odd stuff later. I went ahead and cowboy'd up and bought 5 gal of resin/hardener, still have about a gallon and a half left, but theres not a hole in my boat that's not filled to the rim.
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Hey Messer, looking back through this I wanted to verify that you weren't planning on putting those top support brackets for the swim platform back on????? From the pics I couldn't see the holes in the top of the transom that they were bolted to so I assume that you've relegated them to the trash which is where they belong. The work that you've done so far in getting the transom and floor back to how it should be will give the original (bottom) platform brackets all the support that they'll need.
About the only thing that you might consider is getting new quick detachable brackets for your swim platform. It's a handy feature to have but certainly not mandatory. I thought about it when I redid my floor but didn't think I really needed that functionality. Now looking back, I probably should have gone that route. Being able to pull a couple pins and remove the platform for the extra room in the garage or for cleaning would be a nice featuire to have instead of laying under it, removing a dozen screws and then still having the bracket sticking out a foot from the transom that will definitely put a welt on your hip when you forget that they're there. Ask me how I know????
At least it's something to think about if you haven't already.
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Agreed on the removable platform brackets. I wont re-write everything that I did back there, but see my post on restore and Ive got some pics of mine installed. They work great.
Also, if you have time and want to, send me your brackets....... Ill powdercoat them for you instead of paint! Just a thought. I do a little coating on the side here and would be happy to throw some black on for you if you would like.
On a side note...... I am from Sylacauga which is pretty darn cool (small world aint it). In fact, just day before yesterday I was there (back home now) we were in town for the Bama A-Day game. If you are looking for 5200 in the future bass pro carries it and if they dont have it Rambo's near Childesberg on hwy 280 (sell ski boats and stuff) should have it or should be able to get it.
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Messer, Mike & Backfoot.... You guys are all welcome to redo MY floors anytime!!! Great job dudes!!
Joel
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Mike I truly appreciate the offer... my brother in law and I are planning on sandblasting the original brackets to see if they will have a nice finish, if so I'm going naked. Thanks again, truly generous offer! Speaking of Sylacauga, Gomer Pyles old lake house is still on Logan Martin Lake right across from us. I left the area 2 weeks out of high school to play Army, Navy and Coast Guard and just retired (25 years later) last year this time. Saved all our dough to build and live on the lake.. and tinker with an old inboard.
Backfoot- I think I am gonna stick with the original brakets for now. I went ahead and molded a compartment on the inside stern to be able to get a wrench on the nuts so I can remove if need be. With the new glassed in wood, 3/16 aluminum backers I did in fact throw those knee knocking, toe twisting ugly braces away. ... oh yeah, if you ever meet my wife, watch out. I convinced her that your slant cut exhaust make the boat run better and she is missing a chunk of shopping money...ha!
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Some of my family is still in Sly town, but some have moved on down to Lake Martin (which is where I usually hang around because that property is on the water ;D).
My grandparents and uncle owned Dan's Lake Hill Marina next to the hwy 280 bridge for years before Russell's took the land back over and built the moster marina that stands there now. Where I spent my summers. That makes 4 or 5 of us from around that area........ may just have to have a mini-style-AMskier-reunion one of these days at Logan or Martin........
Bye the way, boat is looking great!
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Backfoot- I think I am gonna stick with the original brakets for now. I went ahead and molded a compartment on the inside stern to be able to get a wrench on the nuts so I can remove if need be. With the new glassed in wood, 3/16 aluminum backers I did in fact throw those knee knocking, toe twisting ugly braces away. ... oh yeah, if you ever meet my wife, watch out. I convinced her that your slant cut exhaust make the boat run better and she is missing a chunk of shopping money...ha!
I understand about keeping the stock brackets. Just thought I would throw it out there while you were at that point.
As for loosing the those ankle bangers, you truly will never appreciate it as much as that first time that you stand on the platform strapping on a ski and not having those God awful things in the way!!!!!!
Not to worry about the slant tips either. You'll have to learn that any "extra" parts that you put into that boat is a "safety feature". In this case, the extra noise created will alert other boaters of your presence which will help to keep them at a distance with no chance of endangering you or your passengers. Or how about the additional brilliance of the tips is essential to GPS tracking and you'll never have to worry about getting lost. Or my personal favorite...the enhanced exhaust tone helps to clear your head of any distractions and focus completely on your skiing and/or driving for your skiier thus preventing any accidents.
See what I mean???? All Safety Features. You can't go wrong. Learn well Grasshopper.
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Messer, do you currently live in Mobile? I am right across the Florida line in Milton. Your swim platform brackets are thru bolted with stainless washers and lock nuts on the backside. I had the same issue and resolved it by cutting access panels on each side below the gas tank and putting in back up plates for the thru bolts to anchor to. The fenders can be purchased at any trailor building shop. There is actually one close to my house where I bought a set and remade the carpeted guides. If the carb has never been serviced that you are aware of, my suggestion is to go ahead and have it rebuilt. It will save you future headaches and improve reliabilty and performance. A tip though, have a marine shop do the work not an automotive, they are set up differently.
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I need to change my profile, I no longer live near the coast :'( but have moved to Logan Martin Lake on the Talladega side. Understood on the brackets, I'm relieved that I went ahead and took care of the issues and now have a compartment to gain access. As for the fenders I bought some at tractor supply and they work fine, but I will cut the slants in as soon as the trailer queen unroots herself. I spent the whole summer without messing with the carb and may go for a repeat... If I have any troubles I'm gonna just buy the kit and try the rebuild myself, I've enjoyed the "quality time" with her so far in the fix ups!
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Messer, first of all my appologizes for the late response, I am new to the forum and did not review the entire thread. You are tackling and doing a great job on your deck repairs. FYI, I went thru the same process a few years back so I understand your challenges and accomplishments. When all was done though, it was more solid than ever and I was proud that I did it myself. Looking back, it was kinda fun. I would echo an earlier recomendation on the removable platform bracket. When I did mine, I had the existing brackets powdercoated. But now they are corroding under the finish. I did install access panels on each side so the upgrade should not be difficult. May have to remove my tank (again)? Great job!
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A little progress between shifts this weekend.
Backfoot 100- check out the braceless deck!
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HELL YEAH
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Nice, now that's more like it. Good job.
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That's friggin' awesome!!!!!!
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There ya go!!! Looks good!!! Where did you find the new (white) speedo pickups?
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Got the pitots at Roberts Sporting Goods in Birmingham.. They also had them online at SKIDIM.COM and OVERTONS.COM
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Today- carpet laid (many tips and snares to report but too tired, will list later).
Port and Stbd side wetsanded and buffed with rubbing compound... a few pix...
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Looking GOOD!!! Your almost there!!! 8)
Joel
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a tad more
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The carpet looks very good... 8) I need to hear the "goods, bads, do's and DONT do's". When I do mine I'll know what to do & how and what to avoid so I wont stumble over the same issues (if I can do this myself).
My local marine shop wants $500 to replace the carpet... Sounds kind of pricey to me?? Any thoughts??
Joel
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Well brother...... carpet itself cost me almost a couple hundred.......then the glue.
Mine was easy cause the top was off though so I dunno what to tell you as far as the ease goes.
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A good marine 20 or 22oz carpet will run $10+ per yd, the next question is labor & the amount of seams you are willing to live with. I prefer to at least re-carpet from the dash back including side walls. This requires removing uph., eng., pylon and carefully lifting the "L" seat up so new carpet can be tucked under the base. Of course with the eng. out a lot of other stuff can be addressed at the same time. If you can get all that done for $500 thats a bargain.
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I cringe to tell since the level of "all marine everything" is high, but here goes just for you Joel. The carpet turned out great. I struggled with paying $425 for Syntec carpet or paying $725 to a local inboard specialist to buy and install it. My decision, since I really wanted to play with it myself, involved two key points- 1. I had never done this so chances of a screw up were high, 2. Cost. ... I purchased the Smoke Blue outdoor carpet from Home Depot (comes 12ft by whatever you choose, I chose 9ft) cost me just under $60 (yes $60 dollars), DAP contact adhesive two cans about $60 total. So I have a grand total of $120 in the carpet. I just went to see my cousins 83 Nautique at the upholstery shop and his brand new $700 carpet install looks no better than mine. He actually threw a dirty word at me when he saw mine and I told him my cost. So if nothing else, I can replace mine 6 more times.
My only snag-- when you lay the adhesive don't put on a lot. I had a couple of bleed throughs as I painted both the carpet back and the floor (as recommended on the can) and was generous with the glue. Luckily they are hidden with the L seat and drivers seat. I would also wait for any last minute fitting cuts as the carpet laid a lot better once there was some wetness on it. Buy a roller- brushes take way too long.
So the big test will be endurance and color fading, time will tell.
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Wow! I gotta say the install looks great... Is that the highest quality outdoor carpet Home Depot had available? Your right about the "only time will tell" regarding wear patterns & color fade - I'm hoping it lasts forever!!! Mine has lasted since 1990 so there is something to say about "Marine" grade carpeting but I wouldnt know the difference from just looking at it. I'm sure Ron and/or Dan will chime in on the differences if any... well, at least I hope they do ;)
I hate to go on the cheap just to save a few $$, but $120 to do it myself is pretty damn tempting!
Thanks!
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I think the biggie (or one of) was the desire to do all this myself. If I could get a sewing machine I'd try the upholstery. ...call me crazy. After this one I may try to get an old fixer and try it again.
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I'm not a carpet expert, but from looking at them I can say one thing for certain. The carpet I purchased "marine grade" had a much thicker rubber backing. I was able to literally pour the contact cement on the floor, let it lay out on its own until if found a pool it liked, spread it with a throw away roller a bit and stick the carpet.
There was no bleed through.
I would bet there are more things, but that is what I could see with my own eyes.
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The carpet price is the lowest part of the equation, labor is the bulk of the job, so get the best materials you can, apparently I've been charging too little for marine carpet. Messer, if you have the time, mentally add up the time spent to prep the job, gather the supplies, install the new materials including adhesives, razor blades etc. & put the boat back together. Then multiply by the national average boat yard labor rate of $95 per hr to see how much can be saved.....
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One of the reasons my marine shop buddy quoted me $500 is because I would be pulling the driver, "L" and rear seats along with the Clamshell Motor cover. None of which takes allot of time/effort since my "L" seat had been removed ( cut out :( by a previous owner and the rest bolts in/out. The quote was from the Driver seat / L seat back. All the carpet in the bow is still in very good shape so I'll be sticking with BLUE!! Cutting the carpet, laying the glue, and placing the carpet CORRECTLY is what his upholsterer would be doing (including covering the two removable pieces, centerline, aft of the engine compartment).
I should probably take him up on the offer - they do a good job on interiors :)
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Ron- I believe all in all, just with the top of the floor (ie ready for carpet) my brother in law and I spent 3 days (prob 18 hrs total each for 36 total hours) thats smoothing any burrs or snags from the glass, going and getting materials, babying it in the garage with fans... of course some of the work was overkill due to lack of experience and some materials were bought and not used. We would also detour occasionally and fix or touch up anything that needed attention not carpet related.
So I'm guesstimating at the shop rate about $3500 dollars (not pesos).
I can see where someone could get proficient and be able to really drop the prep and install time but this was my first attempt. I wouldn't trade the experience, glad to have done it myself.
Update- dropped her off at the upholstery shop Wednesday...
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Cant wait to see the finished boat - inside & out!! 8)
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Upholstery done. Not really satisfied but what options do I have. The upholsterer couldn't get the original style pattern, so smooth is all over. I didn't want Nautique stripes so we went with the blue ribbon edges. She was given the pix of seats from some other AS back seats but went a little far on mine. Regardless, the engine cover looks great as well as the arm rest. The back seat is doable but I'm gonna talk her into adding the ribbon on the front of it. I,...ummm, am glad to be this far along. I wish I had a sewing machine and more time to learn that task too. Yall have a look and send me thoughts.
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I think it looks pretty good.
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I agree about the blue "piping" The back seat would look better with it... Piping is usually added at a seam so it may be a PITA for them to add it... Regardless, I think it looks good... new is always good!!
Nice job all around!
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I appreciate the positive feedback. Watching craigslist for an industrial sewing machine and will teach myself upholstery for the next project. I just need to know, right? ha
Ok, tip and findings for one issue for anyone who follows some of my steps.
- went to crank her- prior to this I replaced the tank which meant I had to cut a bit of the fuel line and place it back on the nipple. Once I put the line on, connected guage wires, installed filling hose and screwed it down.
-gave it a turn and nothing but turnover (years past it would just fire right off)
-pulled the new fuel filter and filled with gas, replaced and she fired right up, ran about 15sec then stopped, repeated fuel filter fill twice.
-the fellas with me wanted to replace fuel pump but I went ahead and pulled the tank, moved it close to the engine, cut the hose real short as it was from 1984 and looked cracked near the ends, filled the filter again, and she fired and ran strong.
-bottom line, fuel line once moved a bit obviously opened suction somewhere.. replace hoses...
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Im really digging the interior man. Looks nice and clean to me which I really like. No bogus stuff stitched in to make it look radical or what not. Just nice, clean, simple.
I like it. Hope mine turns out as well as yours.
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While rebuilding the rescue Advance I looked at the fuel hoses & while they seemed to look ok, I decided to order a 100' of the new USCG A1-15 type rated hose which is good for alcohol in the fuel. Anyone needing some is welcome to buy off this spool.
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98% club member (with the Tangerine Dream)
Mulberry, I'm trying to hang with you. ...not time wise though as I am impatient. Gonna drop a few you tube links, have a look. Since last post I painted the windshield, painted the vents, buffed gel coat on top cap, another coat of teak oil... and scrubbed any grime off.
Of note- without the waterlogged foam the boat rides about an inch higher and feels light. I hope to see a fuel economy boost.
NO FOAM on mine.
22May2012 180.AVI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XB14E-WIUU#)
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Here's the first ride since redo with the girls..
Messer American Skier 1st day with girls.AVI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F21U3UfJzXM#)
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You should be very proud. By the videos you can tell your girls are probably more proud than you and that by itself is worth everything you've done ten-fold. Nice job!!!
By the way the interior rocks. I'm not sure if you had the heat seams (I think that's what Ron called them anyway) originally which I personally probably prefer but the smooth white and blue piping looks great.
All you guys with your new interiors are making mine look like crap :o
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Thanks brother, they were SO glad to get in the drink... I love the loud pipes... and am proud as well of how good she looks. I have enjoyed rebuilding this boat and can't wait until the summer is over to start taking parts off the engine and cleaning, painting to get that part looking as good. Believe it or not I have already been looking for another project as I'm sure I can whittle the time to complete one down.
Mine did have the "heat" seams which I loved. ...I kid you not, I am gonna find me an industrial size sewing machine and figure out how to do upholstery. My cousin just got his Nautique back from the same uphosterer and for $1700 he got a "pontoonish" interior.
I wish I could make the reunion this year but I have the yearly family reunion at the same time.
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Messer, I just got the chanced to look at your pics and Video, that boat is a beauty ! you did a great job.
Not sure if you remember me but I replaced the floor in my 85 Advance this past winter, Night and Day difference. the biggest improvment is the wake, as I slalom skier this is Paramont. My buds are now happy to ski behind my vintage boat even though they have late model MC and Nautique's with the latest speed controls at there docks. I equiped the Advance with Perfect Pass with GPS assist last year, and though the pull is not quite as exact as the new boats, my investment is slightly less, check that, 40,000 less !
I have read comments on this blog that these boats cannot compete with the new boats if your a competitive skier. I beg to differ, I run the coarse through 35 off, and have little trouble adapting on tournament day behind a late model.
In addition, as you know, a hole lot of pride taking the family out for a spin in such a beutiful vintage boat, much more pride than you could have behind a brand new one.
Enjoy the Ride, you deserve it !
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Messer you certainly have a done a great and passionate job
Dan T
ps - Keith I sent you a PM
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Thanks for all the props! We have put about 15hrs on her until just a few minutes ago and love it. The interior tightened up with the heat and looks much better to me. The ride doesn't have any change as far as sound and vibration without the foam, however it does feel lighter and jumps a little quicker. The wake is lower which is a slight negative with the kneeboard and wakeboard crowd I have, but they haven't really noticed.
I have been getting lots of compliments. We have a group of classic skiers around (nautiques, MC) and wannabees, and we have had a few turns to come check us out. ...all in all I'm glad I went thru the trouble over the last few months. I'm still not done, but so far I've had a ball and glad I did it.
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Great job dude!!! 8)
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;D ;D ;D
I enjoyed the rebuild so much that I'm doing another... I'm gonna post a pic and run. Will be on vacation for a week so the comments should be much calmer upon return.
in my defense there are only two American Skiers on Logan Martin Lake, none for sale... this was $2500
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Geez Mess, you're a glutton for punishment aren't you?
Looks to be an '87. Actually a very nice looking boat for the price. I think you got a great deal there.
I really hope that you have to redo the floor in this one. You'll find out really quick that it's not even close to an A/S.
The stringer/floor system on a CC is totally different and much more labor intensive to do it right. Not saying it's any better. I much prefer the construction and layup of the A/S and not because it's easier. I think it's more solid myself. I personally feel that the stringer/floor construction of a CC is very sub-par when compared to the overall quality of construction that's built into the boat itself. Again, purely my own opinion.
If you have to replace the floor, you'll find that the stringers will be shot and there is nothing you can do to save them. Your only option is replacing them. The stringers are not nice straight pieces of wood either. They have notches, dips, and dives cut in them as well as bulkhead supports that brace to the hull. You had better try to remove the stringers as diligently as possible so you can piece them together as a pattern for the new ones. The floor is also constructed of foam and then chopper gun glassed over the top so there is no pattern.
Now for the boat itself. A really nice solid, well built machine (sans the floor/stringer system). I'm not sure if you're planning on keeping it or restoring it and then selling it off? If you or your kids are into wakeboarding and/or kneeboarding and you're planning on fixing and selling it off, DO NOT LET THEM SKI BEHIND THIS BOAT!!!!!!! You'll end up keeping it.
The 80"s CC's (Ski Nautique and 2001's) are well known for their incredibly good wakeboard wakes. The wakes are extremely good as is and able to handle virtually all but the most advanced tricks. When you add weight to them, they're practically world class. Even by today's modern, wake specific $75K standards. This in a boat that was built more than a decade before wakeboarding was ever thought of. Needless to say, they are highly sought after by the wakeboard community. They're only vice is the available space. There isn't a lot of room in them. Especially when you start filling them with sacs, people and all the associated gear. Adding a tower with racks helps somewhat but still an issue.
If you use a boom for training, the side spray from the CC is literally like a 3" fire hose hitting you in the face (on the starts). Once at speed, the fire hose is well behind you. Getting a boom extension to put you farther out helps but still doesn't eliminate it. Side spray from your A/S is virtually non-existant.
So the moral of the story is this....
Use your A/S for slalom, tricking , barefoot and boom training. It's virtually untouchable.
For wakebaording, load up the CC and have some fun.
Good luck and definitely keep us posted on this one. I think you'll be amazed at how different the two boats are constructed but at the same time how they are both very well built.
Eddie
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Daaaaaayyyyyyyaaaaaammmmmmm!!!!!! Nice boat dude!!! I always liked the 2001 :)
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Just checking in with my brothers... good times, making memories..
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Nice... a toy-filled driveway 8)
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... there is a hint of warmth in the air. Water should be up in a few weeks... I got the itch.. a few pix of my only real progress lately. A local graphix shop cut these, a good effort, from a distance perfect, up close I see faults but I'm taking what I get at this point. I dropped one on the bow as well and I think I like it!
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I somehow stretched the middle picture of the stern... I'll get a better one as the stern looks really good with the filled in letters.
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A better shot of the stern without the phone stretch.
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Wow! She looks better & better everytime I see some pics! Would love to see her up close & personal, much more SKI behind her!!! Are you gonna bring her to the Reunion? PPPPPLLLLLEEEEAAAAASSSSSEEEEE!!!! ;D
Joel
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I am struggling with the reunion. Even though it is close enough to get to, I have had a commitment for that weekend for some time. A slim chance I'll make it for the day (Saturday). I'd love to see all the boats together and talk to folks who have the same passion.
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Yeah, Fathers Day Weekend is a stretch for a lot of guys... but on the other hand its perfect for a lot of guys. Real hard to nail down a date :( Well, hope to see you anyway. If not, maybe next year!!
Joel
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ADVICE / ASSESSMENT needed....
She is in the water (pic attached)... Anyway, first outing, kneeboarding and wakeboarding for the teenagers. Kerklunk! >:( A damn tree in the water, couldn't see it with the sun like it was. Vibration at a notch ahead. Felt like bad cavitation when I tried to get up to 12-15 knots, so I backed her down. Pulled her out of the water, prop looks ok, minor fin dings at extremety. I grabbed the prop and there is some play as I work it in both directions. How much play- about a millimeter or so each way (read- the shaft does not move with it in the play). The last time I grabbed the prop I think she was tight.
Anyway, I'm thinking I sheered the key in the prop. Anyone else had similar situations. I'm gonna order a prop puller and do it myself, heck surely I can't screw it up anymore!
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That sucks. Hopefully you weren't going that fast when you hit it. Any time you hit something, it could be as simple as a rebuilding the prop or difficult like removing a strut that has been bent.
Could be a sheared pin but I would think that would be the last thing to go after a stike of something. It could also just be play in the tranny moving it back and forth as you describe.
Even though the prop itself might look OK the slightest ding can make them vibrate bad. I've seen props that practically had a blade sheared off that ran perfectly smooth (albeit much slower) and then another that had the slightest little ding on an edge shake the boat apart at idle. They can be really finicky at times.
You could have also bent the prop shaft. The slightest bend can shake a boat apart too. Ideally a dial indicator is the cats nuts for this. It'll pick up a bend that you'll never see with the naked eye. If it's bent that you can see it with the naked eye, you have to pull it and a good prop shop should be able to straighten it.
You might have bent a strut too. A bent strut you'll never see with the naked eye but it'll mess up your alignment big time which could cause vibration. You can undo the coupler at the tranny and verify if your alignment is still good. If it is, I gotta believe the strut is OK and you just need to verify the shaft isn't bent just aft of the strut and get your prop rebuilt and you're good to go.
Either way, you can't do much of anything until you get the prop off so a puller is a good place to start.
Another thing. If it's going to be clearly an expensive fix i.e. a bent shaft and/or strut and resultant alignment issues check with your insurance company. Any good boat insurance covers underwater strikes. Many years ago I hit a rock bed on a lake that I thought I knew like the back of hand. I was idling at the time and not only did my prop shaft bend at a 45 degree angle right after the strut, it tore a blade off the prop. I ended up calling my insurance company and they covered the $900 repair bill completely. Definitely something to think about if you aren't aware of it. That's why we have insurance.
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Thanks Backfoot...taking it all in. Up all night on the boards reading this stuff. I'm gonna get a dial indicator in the next day or so. There was a nice video on another site on shaft alignment. I think if I watch it a few more times I'll start understanding it, ha.
In the meantime- I ripped out the floor and no obvious issues under or above. Pulled the prop (pin out- easy, nut off with block of wood- easy, prop pulled-easy with only slight tightness-was able to pull with hands and using no puller or hammer)
The key looked a little too far forward but it was tight by hand, unable to remove it but I could slide it around by hand.
POSSIBLE PROBLEM - I got in the boat, grabbed the coulpler off the tranny and grabbed the shaft. I was able to move one about 1/8inch or more while holding the other steady. It may have even slipped astern a bit. That seemes to me the reason I felt like a "cavitation" effect. Check out the video and pix and let me know what you think.
If the shaft to coupler is the problem then whats the fix? I watched the how to's and if I'm not mistaken, I need to remove the coupler from the shaft, put it in an oven and get it smoking hot, remove it(with gloves), put it back on the shaft as soon as possible and when it cools it should shrink to a tight fit. So my question, can the coupler be placed crooked or is it precision enough that there can be no play? Also, once I have it on, should I bolt up the shaft and coupler to the tranny before it gets cool?
video of movement -
http://youtu.be/n3yFqomzRf8 (http://youtu.be/n3yFqomzRf8)
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Hey Mess,
I'm blocked from watching the vids here at work so I'll have to wait until tonight.
If you any free play between the propshaft and coupler, you have issues my friend. If it's as loose as you say, something is very wrong. I would remove it and see what's going on.
You can remove the coupler by getting some longer bolts the same size as the ones that bolt the two coupler halves together. I would think hardened would be better. Put a socket (just a little smaller than the shaft diameter) in the center of the shaft between the two coupler halves and put the longer bolts and nuts on the coupler halves just like you would to bolt them together normally. Start to tighten the bolts evenly around the circumfirence of the shaft (and socket) and it wshould push the shaft right out of the coupler. I have heard of some of them being so tight the coupler can actually start to bend a bit. If it gets really tight, you may have to heat up the coupler half on the shaft a little bit but it should come out.
Your replacement method is correct but you don't have to bolt everything together while it's still hot. Just need to get the coupler on the shaft and wait for it to cool down. Some people even take the shaft itself and put that in a freezer and then put the heated coupler on the frozen shaft. The coupler face may have to be turned to ensure that it is true before installation or sanded down on a flat surface.
Ron and/or Dan may have to interject here as to the fix if there is free play now between the shaft and coupler. The shaft may have spun, broke or sheared somehow. The coupler may be spun out of round somewhat and is shot. I really don't know without actually seeing it. All I know is that they should not be loose in any way. You may need a new shaft or new coupler or both when you finally get it apart and see what the problem is.
My gut feeling is if you have any play now what so ever, the shaft and coupler are done. I just can't imagine that one of them would be able to be reused reliably but I've never experienced anything like what you're describing.
Hopefully the guru's can help out more than me. They damn sure know more than I do.
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orig post - in maintenance
http://www.amskierboats.com/forum/index.php/topic,117.0.html (http://www.amskierboats.com/forum/index.php/topic,117.0.html)
Ron / guys,
I know this thread has been quite for a while so I'll post the link in MESSER LOG as well where I'm at.
Question-
1. With a straight cut shaft, which I think I have, once the couping is off can the shaft be completely removed via the stern? Someone told me I would have to pull the engine..
2. Will the set screws actuall come out with penetrating oil or do I need to go find a torch?
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Messer,
1. You do have a straight cut shaft just like I did. I believe the shaft should be easily removable from the boat. However, I did not remove mine so I am not much help here.
2. My set screws came out with PB blaster. They were toast after removal as the heads had begun to spin. I replaced them with stainless and all was well. From the looks of your video, you may get by with taking everything apart and replacing with new bolts as long as your shaft/coupler is not too worn.
Good luck.
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I hope so. The way it feels is as if the set screws took a beating (one hit) and it may be simple fix. I just saturated the set screws in Wd40 penetrating fluid, fingers crossed.
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You have a worn shaft end/coupler, it is a straight cut shaft, not a tapered shaft. The wear will be within the shaft key, keyway in both the shaft & coupler. By the play indicated it is past its useful life & needs to be replaced preferably with a tapered shaft/coupler. Cause is from too many hours running out of alignment...something has to give.
Removal: It either has to go out the back -or- front, choice is yours, I generally go out the back & service the rudder/port at the same time. Drop the rudder, remove the coupling, slide out the back, re-pack the shaft log while out of the boat. In my shop if the shaft is really messed up & the key is twisted inside i use my sawzall to cut the shaft. (In my shop, it's one thing for a customer to have to pay for a shaft & coupling but I can't expect to charge them hours to remove a worn out coupler, so if I remove the coupler bolts & I can't release the coupling with a few minutes, it gets cut off)
This is also the time to check & replace the strut bearing.
Call if you get stuck.
RonT
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Thanks Ron! After scouring the boards I had a feeling the alignment was off. Once I puled the four bolts from the tranny the shaft coupler dropped about 1/2inch. I refitted it to stabilize while trying to get the set screws out and I had to pull the shaft coupler up to align the holes. I'm heading to the basement as we speak to get back on it.
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Ron,
While we are all at work...
-would my current condition cause the feeling of cavitation or general rumbling when I throttle up? (this after just hitting a submerged tree combined with probable fretting over years of mis-alignment)? I didn't run it up again, went sraigh to the trailer...
-My Skier is a 1984, will the two peice strut bearing you have work on mine?
Parts list so far-
1. new shaft and coupler 1”
2. strut bearing
3. shaft log hose
4. stuffing box cotter pin
5. shaft packing (Teflon)
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Probably has the 2 pc. in it already, measure the length of the barrel, if it's around 6" long, its a 2 pc. , I haven't seen a 4" long strut barrel in a long time. Another suspect part when you have your situation is a worn or broken drive plate damper, located inside the bellhousing attached to the flywheel. 100% of your HP must transmit through the small springs in the plate to the trans input shaft. They typically make a strange klunking noise at low rpm before they go out completely.
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I only post my heartaches so Joel can get a laugh and everyone else that may come into a similar problem can see what to expect or hopefully learn from my mistakes.
Anxious to get her back in the water beforethis upcoming big weekend I decided to remove the coupler, hope for the shaft to be good, and find another coupler fast.
Reality- set screws in coupler not budging. After about $100 worth of bits (cobalt, titanium and who knows what), penetrating oil...sledgehammer, no dice. Not to mention about 10hrs of time.
Reverted back to Ron's recommendation (since he told me what would happen and I'm hard headed sometimes), ordered shaft and coupling, strur bearing, packing... and some decals of course.
10 hrs drilling, no set screws out. 25min with new Sawzall- shaft cut, shaft box out, rudder out, coupling off (slung it as far as I could, guess I should go get it out of my neighbors yard)... A few pix and then a few questions on next post.
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1. What adhesive do you recommend for the SHAFT LOG HOSE? There was a black rubbery product on there.
2. The rudder came off easily (so did my prop actually) with no need for press/pull tools. It seems that water would intrude via the rudder shaft but I didn't get any kind of packing out of it. Is there any? If so, what kind?
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I believe that you need to unscrew that big nut on the rudder packing gland to get to the shaft packing. All you need is standard shaft packing rope but I would suggest graphite impregnated shaft packing rope. It's much more slippery. I'm just not sure about the size. I keep thinking 1/4" but I could be wrong. Mybe Ron or Dan can chime in.
The shaft packing hose should just have a couple hose clamps. At least mine does. One at the base that seals the shaft log and one at the coupler end that seals the packing gland. Then you use the same packing rope for the rudder unless your's is a different size. I don't beleive it is. Ron or Dan can confirm that too.
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Teflon packing (rudder port nut probably has a small set screw in it, look carefully before using a 48" pipe wrench to loosen)
no sealant on hoses
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I know your joking, but I would NEVER laugh at another man's boat heartaches... I've had way too many tows back to the dock to do that! Hope you get her back together and running in short order!
Bravo Zulu!!
Joel
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Quick update- pix to follow soon... boat is up and running SMOOTH..
Recap-
-Hit a submerged tree (thanks flood)
-throttled up to 17kts with extreme rattling
-trailered, no apparent damage to prop or hull
-no play in prop
-play between shaft and coupler (see video)
-disconnected coupler from tranny (dropped about 1/4 inch
-tried to remove coupler without damaging shaft, valiant attempt, denied by boat
-pulled prop nut, propeller fell off in my hands
-cut shaft with sawzall
-removed rudder (no packing, no key??weird)
-removed shaft
-removed shaft log, packing and cleaned all parts
-cut cutlass/strut bearings out with sawzall
-pressed cutlass/strut bearings in
-installed new shaft
-installed coupling (tapered)
-conducted shaft alignment (Thanks Ron for the extra coaching)
-pulled coupling off, installed shaft log components (new hose, packing)
-re-installed coupling then bolted to tranny, tightened packing nut
-re-installed rudder (added a key, no packing?)
-buttoned up boat...
Once in the water I had about a drip every 2-3 seconds, no wiggle or shimmy..came on up to speed, smooth as buttah!
Thanks Ron for the coaching. Fellas, I have a noticeable (no vibration at all) improvement in the smoothness of the ride. Hitting the tree pushed me out of my comfort zone but after doing it, I will certainly recommend reviewing Ron's shaft alignment tips, getting him to send you some new Strut bearings and packing at a minimum.
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VERY COOL!!! Sounds like you did a helluva job!!
You probably already know this, but I'll throw it out there anyway. The rudder may be the "O" ring & grease fitting type (no packing required). Look at the through hull / rudder post under the fuel tank. There may be two "O" rings inside (top / bottom) and a grease nipple on the exterior. If so, install the rudder (with the key) and pump it up with marine grade grease via a grease gun until you get fresh grease coming out. Wipe it off and done!
My rudder didn't have the key in it when I bought it - found it while cleaning out the bilge, along with some leaves & other debris. I give my rudder post a few pumps every Spring as part of my De-winterization. Actually works really well :)
Everybody's boat could probably use an alignment - Which means I need to get off my happy ass and Get-R-Done. Glad you figured out the problem & everything is correct... just in time too!
Joel
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The pix I promised (just back from Florida)... First two are before shaft alignment and after...
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Have you ever seen the beginning of Shelby the Swampmans show where he says "Don't ever do any of the hairbrained things I do"...
as an internet mechanic I like throwing around ideas and looking for any advise- I rebuilt my Skier, loved it. Bought a 87 Nautique but my nephew decided he needed it ( by the way, nine years of no cranking, we got her fired up with a tuneup.. but tranny shot and being rebuilt).., anyway, have a look at the pix. A friend of mine trashed a boat and I was able to get the 351 PCM all complete except the distributer for $700. No tranny, but I did manage to get the throttle, cables, tranny mounts, silencers and associated plumbing and the complete gauge set. He had it running six months ago before he took the distributer and put it on a nautique. I have no reason to believe anything is wrong with it.
Q- I thought it was worth it, what do you think?
Q- since it will sit for a while, should I put any lubricants in it for sitting in the garage?
Q- the tag says the tranny was PCM, will a BW 1:1 bolt right up?
What will I do with it? I dunno right now. I bought it for parts, but now Im thinking about getting a distributer, firing her up and looking for a project hull... I'd love another Fish Nautique if anyone knows of a project one.
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A neighbor call my dock the Inboard Club...
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Hi guys, I have moved off the lake and actually have real internet again, as opposed to the snail speed-non abilty to post, read or upload I have had for the last 4+ years. ... Now that I am back on, I see the site change has left images off due to the switch over. I would love to go back and add the images and videos where all you guys, especially Ron Tanis and Backfoot have helped me get my skier to pristine original condition and exceptional mechanical reliability. I gave it a shot but havent figured out how to edit a post. I'm sure it is something simple, but if someone would throw me a clue I'll make it happen. Love this site! Love American Skiers!
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Wow, you got me buddy. I would assume that your email address changed which changes where the pics were routed. Purely a guess and I could be completely wrong. I can't help you at all but welcome back either way.
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I would like to go back and add photos to old post that were deleted, but have not yet found the correct key strokes. Any one else in the same boat? The fix?