Cold start problem

[RonT]

There should also be a purple wire near where the choke was, make sure that loose wire is insulated. Do you have tie-wraps holding the distributer cap on??

[backfoot100]

Definitely an automotive carb. I would highly suggest that you look to replace that with a marine carb. A marine carb is designed to help prevent a fire. A marine carb vent tube (The two tubes that are angle cut that stick straight up in the air on top of the carb) is called a "J" tube. It comes out of the carb and then turns down (like an upside down "J") back into the throat of the carb so if gas comes out of it, it dumps back into the carb. Better for the gas in that situation to drain back into the carb instead of all over the bilge and potentially start a fire. A marine carb also has splined and sealed throttle plate shafts to prevent leaking as well as different jetting more suited to a boat. A marine carb will have an electric choke that the purple wire that Ron talks about should plug into.

I'm guessing that carb is probably running rich because of the different jetting that they have and doesn't help with your starting issues.

We always strive to make our boats as safe as possible and there is a reason that there are some parts that are marine specific. Carb, alternator, starter, distributor and fuel pump are all marine specific and have modifications in them to help prevent fires. Always a good thing when you're in a boat.

[Arne3680]

That looks like a late model generic automotive carb., not a marine carb. for sure, looks like an electric choke could be added and replace the manual cable. When it does start is there black smoke coming out the tailpipes during the first minute?? If so pay attention to your carb. at shut-down, look down the carb. throats to see if fuel continues to dribble down into the motor after shut down. You may have trash under your float needle/seat.

When I start it there is no black smoke coming out of the tailpipes.
I have tie-wraps holding the cap on. I lost the clips and I'm not shure witch to order now.

Definitely an automotive carb. I would highly suggest that you look to replace that with a marine carb. A marine carb is designed to help prevent a fire. A marine carb vent tube (The two tubes that are angle cut that stick straight up in the air on top of the carb) is called a "J" tube. It comes out of the carb and then turns down (like an upside down "J") back into the throat of the carb so if gas comes out of it, it dumps back into the carb. Better for the gas in that situation to drain back into the carb instead of all over the bilge and potentially start a fire. A marine carb also has splined and sealed throttle plate shafts to prevent leaking as well as different jetting more suited to a boat. A marine carb will have an electric choke that the purple wire that Ron talks about should plug into.

I'm guessing that carb is probably running rich because of the different jetting that they have and doesn't help with your starting issues.

We always strive to make our boats as safe as possible and there is a reason that there are some parts that are marine specific. Carb, alternator, starter, distributor and fuel pump are all marine specific and have modifications in them to help prevent fires. Always a good thing when you're in a boat.

Could the problem be solved with a marine carb?
Is there any difference in working?
What do you mean with jetting?

Thanks!

[Midskier]

That looks like a late model generic automotive carb., not a marine carb. for sure, looks like an electric choke could be added and replace the manual cable. When it does start is there black smoke coming out the tailpipes during the first minute?? If so pay attention to your carb. at shut-down, look down the carb. throats to see if fuel continues to dribble down into the motor after shut down. You may have trash under your float needle/seat.

When I start it there is no black smoke coming out of the tailpipes.
I have tie-wraps holding the cap on. I lost the clips and I'm not shure witch to order now.


black smoke when starting would indicate a very rich condition - for now you will need to  correctly operate the throttle and choke as needed to get the cold engine running - once it warms up choke should be fully open

your engine came with a Holley 6140 Marine 600 cfm vacuum secondaries electric choke carburetor
as Ron mentioned there may be / should be a loose purple wire near the carb now and it should be taped and tie wrapped as it is +12 volts when the key is in the on / run  position  - this purple wire would go to the forward tab on the electric choke
the rear tab on the electric choke is connected to any ground - most use 1 of the screws holding the choke mechanism 

your distributor was originally a prestolite "clip down"

Definitely an automotive carb. I would highly suggest that you look to replace that with a marine carb. A marine carb is designed to help prevent a fire. A marine carb vent tube (The two tubes that are angle cut that stick straight up in the air on top of the carb) is called a "J" tube. It comes out of the carb and then turns down (like an upside down "J") back into the throat of the carb so if gas comes out of it, it dumps back into the carb. Better for the gas in that situation to drain back into the carb instead of all over the bilge and potentially start a fire. A marine carb also has splined and sealed throttle plate shafts to prevent leaking as well as different jetting more suited to a boat. A marine carb will have an electric choke that the purple wire that Ron talks about should plug into.

I'm guessing that carb is probably running rich because of the different jetting that they have and doesn't help with your starting issues.

We always strive to make our boats as safe as possible and there is a reason that there are some parts that are marine specific. Carb, alternator, starter, distributor and fuel pump are all marine specific and have modifications in them to help prevent fires. Always a good thing when you're in a boat.

Could the problem be solved with a marine carb?
Is there any difference in working?
What do you mean with jetting?

replacing the automotive carb with the correct marine carb will accomplish several things
1- safety - less chance for fire / explosion
2- operable automatic electric choke - ease of cold starting
3- jetting - jets are fittings internal to the carburetor that meter the fuel flow - they look like a brass screw with a hole drilled through the middle of it - the hole is a very specific size

by the way if you do replace the carb - it will not guarantee perfect and immediate cold engine starting as your modern EFI automobile does however it will minimize the cold engine start up steps

good luck

Dan T   

Thanks!

[Arne3680]

I understand it will not start like a modern engine.
I only want to be sure I don't do any unnececary costs.

Can someone explain to me why she starts when I use it every day,
But when I don't use it for 2 or 3 data, she starts difficult?

Thanks!

[backfoot100]

You would have to explain starts difficult.
Does it turn over hard (seem like the battery is going dead) or does it turn over normally but just not want to start (like it isn't getting gas or spark).

Then we also need to know how exactly you're trying  to start it. From pumping the throttle, operating the choke and turning the key. What exactly are you doing and what is the engine doing?

[Messer]

Arne, I'm no mechanic but have had a similar issue. My 84 normally fires up without any pumping of the throttle, and fast (like fuel injected but shes not). Last summer and this summer she had moments where she wouldn't fire up, then would fire reluctantly after almost running the battery down. Starter fluid would help, but aggravating. A buddy of mine is a Ford 351 freak who said you have condensation in the distributer cap (I said no since I just replaced the cap and rotor). ...so after the latest monsoon while my boat was at the dock, she wouldn't fire. I pulled the distributer cap, cleaned/dried her inside real good with the shirt I had on, and one turn of the key she fired up. I went as far as using the shirt and fingernail to lightly scrub each contact. Just my 2 cents... Oh, and beautiful boat!

I don't understand the timing comment you had earlier with the rotor. It should just pull straight up and off, then put the new one on in the same pointed direction. You'll have to remove the wire ties from the cap though..

[Arne3680]

You would have to explain starts difficult.
Does it turn over hard (seem like the battery is going dead) or does it turn over normally but just not want to start (like it isn't getting gas or spark).

Then we also need to know how exactly you're trying  to start it. From pumping the throttle, operating the choke and turning the key. What exactly are you doing and what is the engine doing?

She doesn't turn over hard. The battery is ok.
It turns over, but just won't start.

When I start it I first pump the throttle once, then I turn the key. Full choke.
If I try this for a minute, it sounds like she wants to start, but nothing happens.
Then I choke it less. A little opening is now letting air in the carb.
I try this for a minute or so, when it sounds like she wants to start, and do nothing she won't start. So I gave a little extra gas, but then nothing happens either.

After a minute or 7, after some playing with the choke leveler, she finaly starts.
But almost immediately (a couple of secons) she quits. (you can hear the carb sucking air or something and then quits)
This a couple of times in a row, and finaly she keeps running at 2000 rpm.
Not very clean like it should, but after 30 second (more or less) she runs normally in neutral.

If I give some gas, you can hear the air sucking sound again and the engine allmost quits. When she is warm, she doesn't do this.

(when im driving 3mph and give full throttle, she dies. But this is because its an automotive carb I gues. After some things I read.)

I hope you can understand what I'm saying here.
It's very difficult for me to explain this problem in English.

[backfoot100]

I'm pretty sure that I understand what you're trying to say. Makes sense to me. Somebody else like Dan or Ron might agree or disagree with my synopsis.

To me it sounds pretty normal. These carburated boats can tend to be "cold blooded" until they get warmed up. Your cold starting scenario doesn't sound terribly different that how mine starts when cold.

I give it two pumps on the throttle. Turn the key and it generally starts right up. I have to keep it above 1500 RPM or it'll die on me right away. I can start to ease it down to 1000 RPM after about 20-30 seconds and after 45 seconds, it's all good to go. Back to neutral, in gear and everythings fine. After that, all I have to do is turn the key.
If it does by chance die on me in the first 30 seconds when cold, it's immediately flooded. I have to hold the throttle wide open to get it started again and it has to crank for several seconds before it will start again. If I don't give it any pumps beforehand, the engine cranks for a long time before it will try to start. That sounding kinda familiar?

I would suggest giving it two good pumps initially and then try starting it. Ron says one pump which should work but I've always done two.
Also, how are you pumping it? When you pull the transmission disengagement knob on the shifter, pull the throttle lever back (like your going into reverse) to the first detent. That first detent should be a fast idle position. Then you give it two pumps (backwards) from that position. If you're pumping from neutral to that first detent, and back to neutral, you aren't pumping any gas at all.
If you lift the engine cover befiore starting, you should be able to hear the pump shots. If you can't hear the pump shots, you aren't pumping anything.
My guess is that your starting issues are because it isn't getting enough gas initially and the engine has to crank over a long time to get some gas into the cylinders. Purely my guess and I've certainly been wrong before.

The sucking air of the carb when it starts is also normal. It pulls alot of air as soon as it starts. As long as it runs good when warm, it's fine.

Regarding the automotive carb, we've suggested to replace it with a mariine unit. An auto carb will run on these boats but they aren't as efficient and they are jetted differently.
Like Dan stated, if you get a 600CFM marine carb on there with the electric choke, you should just have to set the idle mixture screws and drive it. No more manual choking like you have to do now.

[Arne3680]

I'm pretty sure that I understand what you're trying to say. Makes sense to me. Somebody else like Dan or Ron might agree or disagree with my synopsis.

To me it sounds pretty normal. These carburated boats can tend to be "cold blooded" until they get warmed up. Your cold starting scenario doesn't sound terribly different that how mine starts when cold.

I give it two pumps on the throttle. Turn the key and it generally starts right up. I have to keep it above 1500 RPM or it'll die on me right away. I can start to ease it down to 1000 RPM after about 20-30 seconds and after 45 seconds, it's all good to go. Back to neutral, in gear and everythings fine. After that, all I have to do is turn the key.
If it does by chance die on me in the first 30 seconds when cold, it's immediately flooded. I have to hold the throttle wide open to get it started again and it has to crank for several seconds before it will start again. If I don't give it any pumps beforehand, the engine cranks for a long time before it will try to start. That sounding kinda familiar?

I would suggest giving it two good pumps initially and then try starting it. Ron says one pump which should work but I've always done two.
Also, how are you pumping it? When you pull the transmission disengagement knob on the shifter, pull the throttle lever back (like your going into reverse) to the first detent. That first detent should be a fast idle position. Then you give it two pumps (backwards) from that position. If you're pumping from neutral to that first detent, and back to neutral, you aren't pumping any gas at all.
If you lift the engine cover befiore starting, you should be able to hear the pump shots. If you can't hear the pump shots, you aren't pumping anything.
My guess is that your starting issues are because it isn't getting enough gas initially and the engine has to crank over a long time to get some gas into the cylinders. Purely my guess and I've certainly been wrong before.

The sucking air of the carb when it starts is also normal. It pulls alot of air as soon as it starts. As long as it runs good when warm, it's fine.

Regarding the automotive carb, we've suggested to replace it with a mariine unit. An auto carb will run on these boats but they aren't as efficient and they are jetted differently.
Like Dan stated, if you get a 600CFM marine carb on there with the electric choke, you should just have to set the idle mixture screws and drive it. No more manual choking like you have to do now.

Right after I pumped it, I can see gas in the carb.
Is it really normal that iy only starts after 7 minutes?

[backfoot100]

No, 7 minutes is certainly not normal. I must've missed that part. Must be that laguage barrier thing.

Pull the plugs and see what they look like (wet or dry, color, gap, etc.) What brand plugs are they?

[Daximus]

I'g go with a tune up, plugs, wires, rotor...etc. If that doesn't solve it I would rebuild or replace the carburetor. I'm running a non marine carb too, and while potentially dangerous, it's starts right up...like a champ. I doubt mine turns over 3 revolutions before it kicks and starts. I have an electronic choke for what it's worth.

[Arne3680]

No, 7 minutes is certainly not normal. I must've missed that part. Must be that laguage barrier thing.

Pull the plugs and see what they look like (wet or dry, color, gap, etc.) What brand plugs are they?

Later this day I will check the plugs and tell you what brand they are.

I'g go with a tune up, plugs, wires, rotor...etc. If that doesn't solve it I would rebuild or replace the carburetor. I'm running a non marine carb too, and while potentially dangerous, it's starts right up...like a champ. I doubt mine turns over 3 revolutions before it kicks and starts. I have an electronic choke for what it's worth.

What do you mean with rotor?
Is this the distributor?

[Arne3680]

I looked it up what a rotor is.
I allready did a tune-up.
I got a new distributor cap, a new rotor, new wiring. The only thing I haven't replaced is the distributor itself and the ignition coil.
The battery of my boat is now full cherged, I will take out the plugs later, and clean them up.
What should the spark plug gap be?

[backfoot100]

Arne,
The plug gap should be .035".