Cold start problem

[Arne3680]

Hello

I have some problems with a cold start with my commander 351 engine.
it's an American Skier from 1978.

When I use it every day, I have no problems starting it.
When it lays still for a week, it takes me a minute or 10 to start it.
Can it be because of moist in the carb or the ditributor cap?

When it finaly runs, its like the first five or 10 minutes the engine doesn't use its 8 cylinders.
She frequently skips a cylinder I guess.

Is there someone with the same problem?

[backfoot100]

You can look at a couple things.

First the choke. Take off the flame arrestor and look at the choke plate. When cold, it should have a small gap between the choke plate and the choke horn. Probably 1 or 2mm (over here it's 1/16 to 1/8"). 
To adjust you loosen up three screws around the circumference of the black plastic choke housing. Turn the housing so that you get the 1 or 2mm gap when completely cold.
Turn the key on (don't start it) and you should see the choke slowly open up. In about a minute or so it should be straight up and down.
If it doesn't have a full swing to completely open after being properly adjusted or you can't adjust it properly, the black choke housing/spring should be replaced. They do wear out with age. The choke can make big difference in cold starting.

Might also just need a good tune up. Plugs, points, condenser, cap, rotor and well adjusted timing.

Do you pump it when you start it? When cold, pull engagement knob on the throttle control and give it two or three pumps to start. Common practice for a cold carbed motor.

I wouldn't think you have a water or condensate issue. This is a carbed motor so they can be a little cold blooded when they start cold.

[backfoot100]

By the way, my buddy in Belgium is in Bree. Not sure how far that is from you but it would be really cool if you got a chance to hook up with him. The two of you could help each other out quite a bit when it comes to these boats. He's quite a skier too. A really good guy.

[Arne3680]

You can look at a couple things.

First the choke. Take off the flame arrestor and look at the choke plate. When cold, it should have a small gap between the choke plate and the choke horn. Probably 1 or 2mm (over here it's 1/16 to 1/8"). 
To adjust you loosen up three screws around the circumference of the black plastic choke housing. Turn the housing so that you get the 1 or 2mm gap when completely cold.
Turn the key on (don't start it) and you should see the choke slowly open up. In about a minute or so it should be straight up and down.
If it doesn't have a full swing to completely open after being properly adjusted or you can't adjust it properly, the black choke housing/spring should be replaced. They do wear out with age. The choke can make big difference in cold starting.

Might also just need a good tune up. Plugs, points, condenser, cap, rotor and well adjusted timing.

Do you pump it when you start it? When cold, pull engagement knob on the throttle control and give it two or three pumps to start. Common practice for a cold carbed motor.

I wouldn't think you have a water or condensate issue. This is a carbed motor so they can be a little cold blooded when they start cold.

Thanks

The only problem is that I don't have an automatic choke.
But I can try it manually like tha way you say it.

I allready have replaced the plugs, points and cap.
I can try and replace the condenser and the rotor.
But I can't replace the rotor myself because of the adjustment off timing. I can't do it myself.

Its funny that he lives in Bree.
Thats like 15km (9.5 miles).
What's his name? and what boat does he own?

[backfoot100]

Kristof Ehrens.
I'm pretty sure it's a 88 Correct Craft. Might be an 87. He's a member of a ski team I know. If you want, I'll see if he wants to pass his contact information on to you.

I have no idea what to say of your choke isn't automatic. Maybe Dan T. will chime in on this.

[Arne3680]

Kristof Ehrens.
I'm pretty sure it's a 88 Correct Craft. Might be an 87. He's a member of a ski team I know. If you want, I'll see if he wants to pass his contact information on to you.

I have no idea what to say of your choke isn't automatic. Maybe Dan T. will chime in on this.

Haha, this is funny and coincidence!
I met him yesterday on the water in Maaseik. He owns a '89 Ski Nautique.
He was on a friends boat and we talked for a couple of minutes.
I have no contact info of him, but if he wants to, you can give it to me.

It's a small world!

[RonT]

Backfoots right on target with his advice, one other thing may be causing your issue, a carb that leaks down will flood the rear cylinders & cause hard starting & sound like its running on less than 8 cylinders when she starts, then clears up. This is dangerous and can cause to "Hydrolocking" the cylinder when starting. (catastrophic failure). Send a pic of the carb to clarify the choke issue we may not be talking the same carb. language.
Welcome aboard.

[backfoot100]

Hey Arne,

I was looking at the pics of your rebuild and I see where there is what looks like a cable going to the choke. I assume it was rigged for a manual setup then and I would think you have a choke knob on the dash someplace then?
Ron or Dan would definitely have to confirm this but I don't know of any manual chokes that were factory installed. Was the carb replaced at some point? Maybe an automotive carb put in place of the marine unit? 

Like Ron suggested, shoot us some pics of the carb with the flame arrestor removed. We'll be able to figure it out for you.

[Arne3680]

Ron, Backfoot

I really appreciate your help!
I think that's my problem.

When I started it the last time, it backfired like hell!

It's indeed a manual choke cable. But its to light and I already took it away.
I'm searching for a stronger one.

The carb is replaced. I will look for the invoice and tell toy if its marine or auto.
I think its a marine though.

Could it also be that I start it all wrong when its cold?
What's the best way to start a boat of this age?
Full throttle down or pump the throttle...

[Arne3680]

The engine also still runs on leaded gasoline.
So that can't be the problem.

There is some smoke (fog) coming out of the exhausts.
Is the lead the reason of this?

[RonT]

Typical cold, carb, engine start will need 1 pump of the throttle (down & back to neutral) full choke, crank, start & slowly back off the choke. if you have a manual choke you probably have no "high RPM" idle until warm, as this is normally done with the electric choke (A/S never used a manual choke) so you may have to pull the neutral button on the throttle to add throttle in neutral for a minute or so until it idles. 

[Arne3680]

Typical cold, carb, engine start will need 1 pump of the throttle (down & back to neutral) full choke, crank, start & slowly back off the choke. if you have a manual choke you probably have no "high RPM" idle until warm, as this is normally done with the electric choke (A/S never used a manual choke) so you may have to pull the neutral button on the throttle to add throttle in neutral for a minute or so until it idles.

Ok, thanks.
I'm going to try that later this evening.
But what exactly do you mean by crank? I don't understand it.

I will take some pictures and I'm going to try and film it to show you guys.

[RonT]

"Crank" turn key to start, engage starter motor to rotate engine

[Arne3680]

I've just been with my A/S.
Tried to start her, she started after a minute or 8 of trying.
Below are some pics of the carb.

I also made a film of it.
If you want I can send it to you with wetransfer? (or can i put it here on the forum?)

I think its strange she won't start, when we were working on her she always started for the first time.
Like there was nothing going on.






















Hope you can use these...

[RonT]

That looks like a late model generic automotive carb., not a marine carb. for sure, looks like an electric choke could be added and replace the manual cable. When it does start is there black smoke coming out the tailpipes during the first minute?? If so pay attention to your carb. at shut-down, look down the carb. throats to see if fuel continues to dribble down into the motor after shut down. You may have trash under your float needle/seat.