Author Topic: Thermostat  (Read 14585 times)

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Offline bmock50

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Thermostat
« on: April 09, 2012, 05:37:16 PM »
Can I take the thermostat out of the 351w in my Advance and be ok?

Offline dwelter

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Re: Thermostat
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2012, 08:05:48 PM »
it will be o k for a little while. obviously the engine will run cold which is not the most efficient operation. the question is why. when you take out the old thermostat, why not replace it?

Offline bmock50

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Re: Thermostat
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 09:46:09 PM »
It's still in it, but I put a dripless seal in it. I'm not exactly sure if I plumbed it wrong or something, but I have to wait for the thermostat to open up for the seal to get water. It's currently plumbed into the right side hose that goes to the exhaust manifold.

Offline backfoot100

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Re: Thermostat
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2012, 06:30:42 AM »
I've never put in a driplesss seal but something doesn't sound right here. The hose going to the exhaust manifold should be getting cooling water as soon as the engine is fired up. That is if its set up similar to my engine. I have to assume that we're talking about an Indmar so it should be similar even though it's a SBF vs. SBC. It almost sounds as though something is not right on your cooling system.
The raw water pump should feed into the stat housing and then the hose going to the exhaust manifolds comes out of the housing before the stat itself, not after it so the manifolds get cooled as soon as the engine fires.  If it's like you say it is, it sounds like your not getting the manifolds cooling water until after the stat opens either which would not be a good thing.

Do the manifolds get hot at all when running before the stat opens? Do they heat up at all? If the cooling system is doing it's job, the manifolds should be cooled as long as the engine is runing. They'll definitely heat up after being shut off but while running you should be able to hold your hand on them and they'll feel cool to the touch. You obviously want to be a little careful about just laying your hand on them but you get the idea.

Some pics would definitely help to see what's going on.

When people run down to the lake to see what is making that noise, you've succeeded.

Offline kjerchinger

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Re: Thermostat
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2012, 09:03:04 AM »
i have a dripless seal in my Advance, W 351 Ford, the water feed is spliced in between the impeller and the T stat. hope this helps.
    Keith

Offline Midskier

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Re: Thermostat
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2012, 03:28:02 PM »
what backfoot and Keith said.........

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Messer

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Re: Thermostat
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2012, 05:10:23 PM »
My risers aren't cool to the touch but rather warm borderline hot.  I can put my palms on them but after a 5 seconds I really want to remover them. Does that alarm anyone?

Offline backfoot100

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Re: Thermostat
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2012, 05:53:03 PM »
My risers aren't cool to the touch but rather warm borderline hot.  I can put my palms on them but after a 5 seconds I really want to remover them. Does that alarm anyone?

Yes. What temp does it run at idle and at speed? Have you ever changed the impeller and there were pieces of it missing?  When was the impeller last changed? I assume that you have a crank driven raw water pump. Has the seal on the inside of the pump ever been replaced?
You could either have a partial blockage someplace (T-stat from a fragged impeller or the tranny cooler) or have a small leak in the cooling system someplace.
I would go over the entire cooling system and make sure that all the clamps are tight. Use a socket wrench and not a screwdriver. Ifit's running warm after that, you may have to start taking things apart to find out whats going on with it. Could be something simple like a loose water stainer or something a little more difficult like finding pieces of impeller that are blocking outlets.



When people run down to the lake to see what is making that noise, you've succeeded.

Messer

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Re: Thermostat
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2012, 07:17:41 PM »
  I have had concerns due to a disintegrated impellar which clogged up my thermostat housing and made her run hot (around 210). She passes the bucket test great but without a tstat. I installed a tstat once and blew a freeze plug, crazy. After this issue I have been worried ever since...
  I used a temp gun and the readings on the manifolds are between 100 and 120 degrees. The Port riser is a little hotter than the Stbd. The heads read around 100 degrees and the intake was a little cooler.
  I gave up and ran the heck out of her this past summer (about 170hrs of boarding) deciding to buy a new engine if she blew... shes still intact and running better than ever, cranks immediately.
  I followed the "engine cooling" board with Joel and Doerflir and figure I may need to check my water pump... but I've got to get a floor back in her first..

Offline bmock50

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Re: Thermostat
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2012, 09:45:30 PM »
I was thinking that hose should be getting water full time, and yes they get hot. I have a new impeller, just haven't changed it out yet. When I hook it up to a fake a lake, I'm still getting water out of the exhaust on either side even with the tstat closed. I did look at the water in the hose after running the boat last time, and it was hot/boiling.

Oh, it was a PCM, but had a standard 351w block put in it with all the accessories off of the PCM. Does that make a difference?

Offline backfoot100

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Re: Thermostat
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2012, 06:15:54 AM »
  I have had concerns due to a disintegrated impellar which clogged up my thermostat housing and made her run hot (around 210). She passes the bucket test great but without a tstat. I installed a tstat once and blew a freeze plug, crazy. After this issue I have been worried ever since...
  I used a temp gun and the readings on the manifolds are between 100 and 120 degrees. The Port riser is a little hotter than the Stbd. The heads read around 100 degrees and the intake was a little cooler.
  I gave up and ran the heck out of her this past summer (about 170hrs of boarding) deciding to buy a new engine if she blew... shes still intact and running better than ever, cranks immediately.
  I followed the "engine cooling" board with Joel and Doerflir and figure I may need to check my water pump... but I've got to get a floor back in her first..

Mess,
The temp readings that you gave aren't horrible but they aren't right. The only time the manifolds should be 100-120 degrees is if the lake water temps are that high (or after you shut the engine down, they'll naturally heat up)??? At least you're getting some cooling water. If it passes the bucket test, it's a pretty safe bet that the integrity of all the connections are good and you aren't sucking air anyplace.
I gotta believe that you have a blockage someplace. Especially if you've had a fragged impeller. There are pieces of it stuck someplace. There are only a few places those pieces could be. The T-stat housing, the manifold(s) or the circulation pump (aka water pump). All you can do take one piece at a time, disconnect the hose and check it good and/or remove the part and check it over really good to find where the pieces are at.
I understand that you have much bigger fish to fry right now with your floor. I hope that you can get it figured out.
When people run down to the lake to see what is making that noise, you've succeeded.

Offline backfoot100

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Re: Thermostat
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2012, 07:11:25 AM »
I was thinking that hose should be getting water full time, and yes they get hot. I have a new impeller, just haven't changed it out yet. When I hook it up to a fake a lake, I'm still getting water out of the exhaust on either side even with the tstat closed. I did look at the water in the hose after running the boat last time, and it was hot/boiling.

Oh, it was a PCM, but had a standard 351w block put in it with all the accessories off of the PCM. Does that make a difference?

PCM or Indmar doesn't matter. The plumbing and fixtures for each is a bit different but the principles are the same. The PCM traditionally runs a belt driven raw water pump (RWP) instead of a crank driven one.
When you run with the fake-a-lake the water pressure from the hose is what is pressurizing the cooling system. Yes, it works well for running your engine in the driveway but it won't detemine if you have a leak in your cooling system someplace (translated to you'll suck air instead of water under normal running conditions leading to overheating).
You need to disconnect the water intake (usually at the input side of the sea strainer or tranny cooler if you don't have sea strainer) and attach a hose to it long enough to run over the side down to the ground. Put the end of the hose in a 5 gallon bucket full of water.  Start the engine and if everything is tight and operating properly, the bucket will be empty in about 15 seconds.
If it doesn't, you need to to start looking at why it doesn't pull water the way it should.

Common problems are loose clamps on the hose connections. Check them all with a socket and not a screwdriver.
A plugged up or leaking sea strainer or tranny cooler.
A bad impeller in the RWP.
A blocked hose or partially blocked hose usually from a fragged impeller (see the post above with Messers issues)
A leaking RWP shaft seal.
Anything else that I might have missed.

You definitely need to start with replacing the impeller. A lot of the guys over at CCFan think I'm over cautious but I change my impeller out every year. Many believe that an impeller is good for several years but if you've ever had to search for the pieces of a fragged impeller in your motor, the cost of changing it out every year for piece of mind is worth every penny.
If you do have the PCM belt driven RWP you have to be careful too. Pay close attention to how they're installed when you change the impeller. They can easily be installed backwards which means that they'll be pushing water out of the intake instead of pulling it. Not a good thing. There should be a screw on them that is either facing forward or aft (depending on engine rotation) It might be starboard or port. I don't recall for sure. Just make sure that it's reinstalled the way it came out and you'll be good.
Another thing that many people don't think of is that the RWP (crank or belt  driven) has a seal on the back of it behind the impeller (where the RWP shaft comes through the housing).  That seal can go bad and can be replaced pretty easily. If you're getting some water leaks from the RWP itself, that seal probably needs replacing.

You definitely have some issues that need to be addressed if you're getting hot manifolds. Start with the impeller and the bucket test and go from there.
Let us know how things turn out or if you have any other questions. We'll try to help as much as we can.
When people run down to the lake to see what is making that noise, you've succeeded.

Offline bmock50

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Re: Thermostat
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2012, 09:10:22 PM »
I'll definitely do some troubleshooting. Thanks for the help.