Author Topic: Engine Replacement  (Read 12143 times)

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Offline keehr22

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Engine Replacement
« on: March 12, 2011, 04:34:55 PM »
Quick question, looking at replacement reman engines for the skier. I've got the '01 Marine Power Vortec, it blew a head gasket and wore into the block face as well as the head surface. When ordering a replacement, will standard vortec heads work, or are the Marine Power heads required for my intake system?

Offline Joel

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Re: Engine Replacement
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2011, 04:38:58 PM »
I dont know the answer to your question...  but, what a DRAG!!!!  Sorry to hear that!  I'm sure one of the mechanics on here will chime in...   :)
Joel - Columbus, OH - 1991 Advance

Offline Mike Harry

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Re: Engine Replacement
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2011, 03:10:36 AM »
Standard heads will work, but I'm sure most will tell you you need everything stainless in them, valves and such.

I'm going to put edelbrock heads on mine when I get around to it...... heads are the same its the internal components that differ.

Offline keehr22

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Re: Engine Replacement
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2011, 06:26:30 PM »
Cool, that's what I had thought, just wanted to double check before pulling the trigger on this.

 I found a place that sells the 5.7 Vortec short block for $720, and another with the long block for $1980, short block with 90 days and long block with a 12 month parts warranty. I'm pretty sure the long block comes with standard vortec heads, nothing special.  Anyone have any recommendations on cylinder heads if I went the short block route?

Offline Mike Harry

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Re: Engine Replacement
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2011, 07:37:16 AM »
Cam, Cam, Cam......... when I built my engine I called Indmar and the tech I spoke with basically told me do whatever I want with the bore, stroke,  heads......... but DO NOT CHANGE THE CAM! if you buy a short block your gonna have to put a marine cam in it. You gotta make sure that wont hurt your warranty!

An automotive cam WILL NOT give you the performance you need.

I'm guessing your looking at an automotive style reman is the reason I say anything.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 07:43:15 AM by Mike Harry »

Offline brandon

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Re: Engine Replacement
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2011, 07:42:10 AM »
Brandon,
If it was just the head gasket that failed, what do you mean by "it wore the block and head surface"?  You should be able to take that head to any machine shop and get it checked/refaced unless it is warped beyond repair, and then just install a new head gasket and go boating.  Did you have a major overheat or did the gasket just let loose?  Ron should have the interchange information you are looking for, definitly consult him before buying a potentially wrong motor.  Car motors will have some different parts and remember your boat motor spends more time at higher rpm's than your car (rephrase: most peoples cars!)
Brandon

Offline RonT

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Re: Engine Replacement
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2011, 02:49:44 PM »
OK guys settle down, your not going to like what I have to say here. Because the ski boat industry is so competitive our engines often times have small differences from the kissin cousin counterparts found in light trucks. A Mercruiser 260 HP 5.7 might be pretty close to a truck set-up, besides the obvious marine components like exhaust, ignition, cooling etc. Engine builders like PCM, Indmar, Marine Power, and now ILmor buy their base engines al a cart, they choose the block, crank, pistons, cam,  heads in a combination they want. Expect a little higher comp. ratio, hardened perhaps stainless valve seats, different cam than auto use etc. Then comes the ECM, compression ratio & camshafts must be matched to the ECM calibration. Each engine builder calibrates their ECMs to the engine type. Often adjusting the calibration to specific engine/boat models. Will a common auto reman work, maybe, will it run as good as the original, doubtful. All the components are designed to work together for maximum power and reliability. If you have a 1995 pick-up with a blown engine & want to put an available same size engine from a 1999 model chances are it may not even start unless you transfer the computer with it, this is how we have progressed to maximize performance.     

Offline brandon

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Re: Engine Replacement
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2011, 03:28:36 PM »
Something else to note, most of the reman or new crate motors (GM performance parts, etc.) have a note "Not for marine use" and will void the warranty if they found out you did install it in a boat.  Again, if it just pushed the head gasket out and wasn't a major overheat you should be able to install a new head gasket and not have any issues.

Offline keehr22

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Re: Engine Replacement
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2011, 09:56:06 AM »
Forgot to mention, those prices mentioned are for marine specific engines, one offered by Fliteline and another by Mabbco.

Offline Mike Harry

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Re: Engine Replacement
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2011, 10:41:18 AM »
I would not go against what Ron has said. I was merely speaking as to what I did  for myself.  I tore down my indmar to bare block because of a seizure on the #4 main bearing. New crank, new rods, new pistons rings so on and so on.

I didn't buy marine specific anything as my machine shop guy checked the numbers on everything and it was same size and lengths as a stock 350 automotive.  I did however buy a forged crank as that's what came out of it.

Now the heads were only freshened ....... . Only change I made there was to threaded studs as the pressed in were backing out of the holes.

I had no computer to deal with though, just a Carb I set up myself.

The block was punched .030 and I did put an edelbrock aluminum intake on it.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 10:45:21 AM by Mike Harry »

Offline RonT

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Re: Engine Replacement
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2011, 02:43:07 PM »
Another note: Carb. vs. EFI engines are totally different when it comes to set-up. A carb engine is much more forgiving when it comes to swapping out parts, the EFI engines are carefully calibrated systems that must work together.

Of more importance is the cause & can it be prevented. I called Marine Power & had a lengthy conversation about this. The most common cause is detonation, detonation or "knock" can be caused by several things, a common one would be running too lean causing excessive heat in the combustion chamber. If these were multi-ports a specific injector partially blocked could do this, but we ran throttle bodies which would eliminate this. Another possible cause for our motors would be restricted fuel flow at higher rpms causing hot spots (think fuel filter)
Another remote possibility would be a faulty knock sensor not telling the ECM to retard the timing when detonation occurs. This should trigger a fault code, but then we are dealing with computers which I have learned not to trust.
Last possibility I can think of will be of interest to all with the EFI engines: We had brass "tee" fittings installed between the block & knock sensor (Starboard side of engine) to facilitate a drain fitting. This was approved by GM at the time but I am second guessing this arrangement. There is a sensitive crystal inside the knock sensor that "listens" for detonation. The brass fitting could be dampening the frequency and causing the knock sensor to miss some detonations. I WOULD REMOVE THE TEE FITTING AND THREAD THE KNOCK SENSOR DIRECTLY INTO THE BLOCK When it comes time for winterizing you will have to remove the knock sensor, (don't drop it).

Offline Joel

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Re: Engine Replacement
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2011, 09:45:33 PM »
O.K. how many BRANDONS do we have???   I'm confused...   ::)   Brandon writing to Brandon and then Brandon replying... to BRANDON!!!   ???   :o   Figured it was time to lighten up the mood a bit!!!

Anyway, whichever one of you Brandons shows up at KY Lake you can ski behind my boat if your boat isnt ready...  :)

Joel
Joel - Columbus, OH - 1991 Advance

Offline keehr22

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Re: Engine Replacement
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2011, 06:38:57 PM »
Tennessee Brandon here, well the decision is in, the AmSkier is for sale, temporarily. Threw it up to see what happens, if I get an offer that works it'll sell, if not I'm putting her back together.
    2 weeks on the market is the limit, otherwise i run the risk of missing valuable boat season time, and with my unknown military deployment schedule I need to make the most out of all the summer I can get back here! $8000 is the magic number...We're looking for an open bow direct drive in the 8k-12k range, with the Mastercraft Maristar at the top of the list.

Offline phil

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Re: Engine Replacement
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2011, 06:44:35 PM »
 Sorry to hear that. Sucks you've had some tough luck with her. Hopefully someone will buy it. We also own a 2008 Moomba Outback.  We love it.

Offline Joel

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Re: Engine Replacement
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2011, 08:34:48 PM »
Really sorry to hear that... its a beauty of a boat, but, ya gotta do what ya gotta do   :(  Regardless of your boat builder preferences, your STILL coming to the AM Skier Reunion...  even if I gotta drag your butt down there ( thats my Chief's voice if you didnt recognize it ;)   Like I said, you can ski with me all day!    8)

Joel
Joel - Columbus, OH - 1991 Advance