boat want start when hot

[vrtaylor]

I have a 2000 American skier tbx, great boat, my problem started 3 days ago. skied all morning no problem docked boat and came back about 2 hours later and it wouldn't start, it would turn over but not start, put it on the trailer and next morning it started up first turn, skied for an hour and parked for about two hours and tried to crank it and it wouldn't start, pulled out of the water again and let it set over night and it started up first thing in the morning. If anyone has any answers or things i can try please let me know, Thanks

[phil]

Hey there. Thanks for joining the site.


Are these 2000 TBX's electronic ignition? It kind of sounds like it might be flooding. It's carb right? Take off the flame arrestor and look down the throat of the carb to see if fuel is still going into the carb.  I was thinking possible vapor lock too but I wouldn't think that would take two hours to resolve itself, so I'm leaning towards flooded. Hmm.

[chrisheile]

Oh boy, a TBX.  We want pics.  Sorry, I know that's the least of your worries right now but when you get things resolved, we want to see it.

[vrtaylor]

Thanks phil, I know that it is fuel injectied, should i look at the carb when it want crank to see if there is gas, i haven't smelled any gas since this started. Thanks again!

[brandon]

Might be vapor locking.  I think somewhere on here Ron or Dan talked a little about some re-routing of fuel lines that usually solved the problem.  I don't know what motors they were running, but I think my PCM GT-40 is having the same problem, so I hope they have a solution for both!

[phil]

Nah, don't bother with that since it's fuel injected. I wasn't sure if those ones were carby or fuel injected.  Try and pour some cold water on the fuel pump the next time it happens. If that fixes it than it could be vapor lock. Run the blower more too even after shutdown for a few minutes as it will help to remove some of the hot air in the bilge. Once you shut her down it actually get's hotter in the engine compartment because of "heat soak". If that doesn't work then I would look to ignition problems but let's hope for the vapor lock because you can help prevent that by taking a few simple steps.

This might be the post Brandon was referring to:  http://velvet1.homeip.net:8080/~amskier/forum/index.php?topic=128.msg775#msg775

[vrtaylor]

Thanks I'' try the cold water, I traced the fuel lines from the tank and found that it looks like I have two fuel pumps, i'm sure that I don't but do have any Idea what the second cilinder with electrical plug might be. I know it comes from the tank to the filter then to what looks like the fuel pump then to a second cilinder with electrical plug and then into the motor, which is the pump! and I think my blower is going bad, It makes a bad noice when on, where is it located inthe boat. I'm sorry about all the question!

[RonT]

Your boat came originally with a TBI injection system (Throttle Body Injection) and you are describing classic vapor lock conditions until you mentioned odd noises from the high pressure fuel pump, in which case you may have vapor lock and a self destructing fuel pump. Your fuel is supplied from the tank to a primary electric fuel pump which pushes fuel to the high pressure pump which supplies the TBI unit. Your fuel is boiling inside the line or pump and cannot pump a vapor to supply the TBI to run. This is an industry problem, with various ways engine & boat builders have tryied to correct. When your boat was built this problem was at its peak & we were all looking for answers correct it. Much of the problem evolves from the enviromental whackos who have pushed more & more oxygenating addatives to our gasolines to save a couple pounds of hydrocarbons from entering our atmosphere. (I would guess 15 years of "weak gas" saved as much "polution" as 1 hour of leaked oil in our gulf)
I was also frustrated at this time & didn't wait for the engine suppliers to act & developed an additional blower system to send ambient air over the engine when the motor box reached 140deg. this cured 90% of the problems. INSPECT your "Auto Air Induction System" before flooding your bilge with water. If unsure how this works call me...985-542-4336

[vrtaylor]

Thanks RonT, I will be calling, can you tell be where the blower is and where i can get a new one, I don't think mine is working well!

[phil]

I'm sure Ron will be able to get you your blower.

[Midskier]

I would be surprised if the problem is NOT vapor lock I have the other 10% piece of that puzzle, considering the Midwest seems to have a different blend every other month or so, the problem was really bad up here.
in the mean time check your "auto air induction blower" as Ron suggested, run your manual bilge blower........ pretty much all the time, lift the hood a few inches when leaving the boat for a couple of hours.  cold water on the fuel pump will not change the vaporize fuel back to liquid enough for it to pump.............

additional info from a member here who grew up in the petroleum business and looked this up for me in 2001 (gee, wonder why)

Conventional unleaded gasoline boiling point C (F): > 35 (95)
Reformulated unleaded gasoline boiling point C (F): > 23 (73)

During the winter months, gasoline has an oxygenate (feedstock) added to the
gasoline in order to reduce emissions.   

Oxygenate (feedstock) ethanol boiling point C (F): > 77 (170)


Dan T

[keehr22]

Hey guys, I'm having a similar issue,  after running for awhile (usually mid day this happens) I'll go to crank her up again and after idling for several seconds it'll stall and not want to fire again. I'll still have good spark but no fuel. But I think instead of vapor lock I'm having a vent issue with the tank, after running for awhile my tank caves in, I can't seem to figure out where the vent is to see if its blocked or kinked, or is it supposed to have a vented gas cap? right now my solution is to relieve the vacuum in the tank every hour or so by loosening the gas cap but I'd like to go ahead and fix the issue..

2001 Lazair Marine Power 5.7 fuel injected

[chrisheile]

I may be way off here but it doesn't hurt to offer previouis experiences.  Does it turn over?  My 2002 was acting funny at one time and it was just a starter.  It would fire off cold, we'd ski one person, turn it off and it would not start again.  I was looking everywhere else but the obvious.

[daveo]

I had a problem at the beginning  of this season with fuel. boat would run but only for about 10 mins then it would stall and would'nt start for 10/15 mins. It turned out to be the outlet on top of the fuel tank (not sure what the part is called ) there is a small spring and ball bearing inside the elbow at the outlet(some kind of check valve/backflowvalve) it was all corroded and only would allow a small amount of gas through. very simple fix and no problems after that. dont know if this helps but its a good thing to check



                                                                                   daveo

[brandon]

It sounds like a vapor lock problem, until you say the tank is collapsing.  There should be a vent line coming off the tank that is usually connectred to a "vent" located next to the fuel fill fitting.  This is probably plugged with corrosion, dirt, or spider nests.  If you take the line loose from the tank you should be able to blow it out.  The check valve problem may also be part of the problem, but it won't cause the tank to collapse, just restrict the fuel flow to the motor.
Brandon
Now that I think about it, the vent on my 85 is on the opposite side of the boat than the fuel fill, just under the rubrail.