Newly Purchased 1988 Advanace - Issues->Suggestions

[BOB RUNCER]

Hello to everyone in the exciting forum!!!

I just purchased my first American Skier a week ago and took it for a rip around the lake today.   It took a little coaching to get the engine to fire.   I found out it has a flat spot in the starter that a couple of knocks with a wrench got it turn over.

Needs a new starter.   From previous posts it looks like it may be easier just to rebuild it but we have such a short summer up here in Canada, I'll just replace it and get the boat back in the water.

A big concern came when @ 4,000+ RPM the engine/tranny seems to intermittently slightly slip for a second now and again.  The engine whined a bit and the boat doesn't seem to plane out at high speeds.  Suggestions anyone? Thank you in advance.  Bob

[backfoot100]

Welcome Bob,

And congrats on your new Am Skier. Nice looking ride by the way.

A little more info would be nice. Engine size, who marinzed it, hours etc. What service/maintenance have you done to it if any?

First off, the tranny. I assume it's a Velvet Drive 1:1. Sounds like it may be slipping a bit. Check the fliud level. Is it a good pink color, not dirty or burned? If' it's a little low that could cause a slip a bit but I'm quessing a rebuild may be in order. It's not uncommon. These tranny's are strong but they don't take kindly to overheating, low or dirty fluids or synthetic fluid. If you haven't done so already, try changing the fluid to a standard Dexron III. No synthetic and no high mileage formula's either. Just plain old Dexron III. See if that does anything for you. Any additional slipping may require a rebuild.

About the planing. Are you saying that the engine never got above 4K RPM because of the slipping or it just never got above 4K RPM at all? These boats are planed out long before they are considered at  high speed so I don't understand your comment. Some clarification would help.

If you haven't done so I would suggest that you do a complete tune up and see where you're at. that's why it would be nice to know what engine you have in there. We can help you get that to run as it should.

The hard starting. Is that because of the starter as you say or once you got it to turn over the engine would not fire as you would like? Again, some more detail would help us to help you. A tune up would probably help an engine that doesn't seem to want to start as it should. Maybe a carb rebuild is in order too. The starter may or may not be an issue. There are things you can look at to troubleshoot tehses issues.

Let us know what you got there and we'll certainly try and help you out.

[BOB RUNCER]

LOL...My apologizes in advance.  Being new to my AS project and only having basic Mechanic's knowledge = my limited info    I will endeavor learn about this boat bow to stern. I really do appreciate your assistance.

This boat was purchased with no information so Im starting from scratch. I'll take a few pics of the engine and post which may help identify the details of the engine.

Yes, the tranny fluid appears dark brown, possibly burnt and not viscous when rubbed between fingers.  I'll change the oil for sure as but it's sounding like a tranny rebuild my be in order.  Any idea of a cost to do this?

The Tranny slipping is odd and occurs at about 4k RPM and 45MPh.  At the same time RPM gauges start fluctuating on the dial.   The bow of boat seems to start to slightly "bounce" and does not fully plane out.  Most likely the Tranny slipping.  Also The tranny does jump into forward a bit clunky and find neutral is a tad sensitive.

Sorry, my "would not fire" comment was not clear. The starter just clicks and has to be tapped with a wrench to get it to engage.  From my experience that's from a flat spot in the starter windings. 

The hard to start comment my be just getting familiar to the choke, throttle position, not flooding it etc. I'll mention it to the mechanic when I bring it in for the tune up.

Following your suggestion the boat will go in for a full tube up next week.

Mechanical details that I'm aware of from previous owner:
Engine was rebuilt a year ago and has approx 60 hours on it. 
All boat wiring and gauges, dash removed and replaced with new.
Main prop shaft bearing / seal replaced
Newer Holly 4 barrel carb

Thanks again for your comments

[backfoot100]

No apologies needed Bob. Every one of us was in same boat (so to speak) as you are now at one point in time or another.

As for the tranny.... It might not hurt to change the fluid and try it again but doesn't sound promising. You need to pump out the old fluid and refill. It's about 1.5 to 2qt. to refill it or to you canucks, 1.42-1.9 liters. Drain and refill,  go run it for 10-15 minutes and drain and refill again. You'll never get all the fluid out of the pump, and cooler so running it a little bit and doing the process over again will get the majority of the bad stuff out. If the fluid is that bad even doing a drain/refill cycle a third time wouldn't hurt. Maybe it can be saved (at least for a little while) with a fluid change and it's a lot cheaper than pulling it out and rebuilding it but I wouldn't hold my breath. Unfortunately, it sounds as though it's done for but who knows. It's certainly worth the cost of a few liters of Dexron III to try it.
Rebuild cost is dependent on where you get it done at. Most places in the states would get someplace in the $700-$800 range to do them. Maybe a little more. If you know somebody, it can be considerably cheaper.
If you do rebuild the tranny, do yourself a favor and replace the damper plate that bolts to the flywheel right away. The tranny input shaft is splined and slides into this damper plate. This plate takes up the shocks (dampens) from the engine crankshaft to the tranny (and vise versa), hence the name damper plate. Chances are good if the tranny is gone, that damper plate is also not long for this world. Seeing as the tranny must be removed for the rebiuld, the damper plate is easliy accessable so change it then. If you don't change it, I quaranty you'll be pulling the tranny a second time shortly after the rebuild to replace the damper anyway. Save yourself some headaches. That damper plate will run about $125 maybe a little more.

Tune up and fluid changes would really be beneficial. That way you have a baseline to start from. If you aren't that familiar with the boat you're eliminating any possible problems right from the start. It's pretty amazing what a good tune up can do for you performance wise.

The starter may be due for a rebuild but you might want to verify your voltages and all your battery connections before you start throwing money at a new starter. Verify battery voltages at the baterry and work your way back to the terminal block on the engine, the engine ground and the eletrical connector that runs from the terminal block to the dash.  Make sure everything is clean, tight and not corroded at all. You might just find a loose wire or poor connection is causing your starting issue instead of the starter.

Your shift issue sounds like a simple cable adjustment. There is a shift lever on the left rear side of tranny that has a cable connected to it from the Morse shifter on the gunnel. There should be a cotter pin holding a small round brass connector to that shift lever. Pull the cotter pin and pull out the brass connector from the shift lever. That lever has three detent positions that click into place. Forward, neutral and reverse. You can manually move that shift lever from neutral to forward and back to reverse and feel a solid click as it gets into each gear. Make sure the shift lever is in neutral and then make sure the Morse control lever on the gunnel is in neutral. That little barrel connector with the cotter pin on the shift cable should line up perfectly with the shift lever on the tranny. If it doesn't (which I'm guessing it doesn't) that little barrel connector can be raised or lowered on the cable by simply screwing it up or down the cable. When it lines up with the hole in the shift lever, put it in and attach the cotter pin. Should be much smoother shifting for you. Any other problems may need some adjusting on the Morse sifter end of the cable which can be a bit more complicated.

Finally, you can do a lot of reading in the different forums here and you'll be amazed at what you can learn and save yourself a lot of money along the way. A lot of knowledge here and we are fortunate enough to have Dan and Ron Tanis with us who have forgotten more about these boats than I'll ever hope to know.
Don't be afraid to ask for help. No question is too stupid and don't be afraid to try getting your hands dirty. It's amazing how much someone without any mechanical apptitude can do. All you have to do is ask.

Let us know how things go for you.


Eddie



 

[RonT]

Welcome aboard, Eddie has covered everything above except what you called "Planing" & I agreed with what he advised. One footnote to the trans shift cable. An additional issue can be cable wear and the wear at the brass barrel (pivots). If you make the adjustmets as Eddie listed worn cables & pivots can also cause improper or sloppy shifting throws. 

Planing: What you are describing is called "porpoising"  which means you are really going faster than the hull is designed for. This can be corrected by tuning the hull, one way to see what the effect will be like is to run the boat again at full throttle (after the trans is fixed) with a low fuel level and (3) big guys up front , nobody ion the rear. Should be much smoother, reverse the balance and the porpoise should get worse. 

[BOB RUNCER]

Im so impressed by everyone's very knowledgeable/experienced comments.  You guys are awesome.  What a great group.

My Am skier is being dropped off tomorrow morning for the starter check, new fluid charge outs and tune up.   Keeping my fingers crossed on the tranny.  I will print all your comments and pass them along to the local boat mechanic.   Am Skiers are very very rare up here.  Only the ski clubs have ever heard of them and that's possibly why the Am skiers is a head turners. So unique.  It's all Mastercraft's and some Ski Nautiques up here. 

Thanks Ron, you hit the nail on the head. Had 3 guys in the back of boat at the time and the boat was totally "porpoising". We did move up the guys to mid boat and it settled it down.  But I though the Am Skier should be able to handle it but like you mentioned , maybe not a higher speeds.

I have taken a few days off for an upcoming extended weekend, so hopefully my boat is ready and all turns out positive.   I'll post my fiendings.  I'll also catch up on some good reading in the many forum posts. 

[Messer]

  Trust me on this..... You are better off using this site and doing the work yourself than using a "general" mechanic. After being burned quite a few times on simple stuff..., yeah, I'm here. If I lived close enough to the Senior Boat nut (Ron Tanis- aka builder of my boat) I would drop it off every time, but no such luck here.
   You wouldn't believe what I just did to my boat...of course you wouldn't believe what she did to me (screwdriver through hand, knuckes bloody), but, I know its being done right.

[Joel]

Almost all the stuff posted above YOU CAN DO with a basic set of wrenchs, screw drivers and an oil suction pump (manual - dont spend a ton of $$ on electric pump).  Tune ups are simple - drain & replace the oil, replace spark plugs, replace spark plug wires (one at a time), etc...  Even tuning the carb is relatively simple - Google adjusting Holley Carb for easy directions.  If you still have points & condenser you can change those out for Electronic Ignition for about $100 - not a hard job either with some good directions.   Again, Google or call Dan or Ron - this is one of our Tech Session Topics at the Reunion this year.

If you run into a snag, got a question, etc, get on here and ask!!!  These guys are THE BEST!!!  If you need parts go to Ron and/or Dan FIRST!!!  You'll get the right parts the first time and at a fair price.   Mechanics typically just want to replace parts till they stumble upon the root cause... that gets expensive    I'm betting the tranny will be fine once the fluid has been changed out a couple of times (as Eddie suggested).

Good luck & let us know how it turns out!   Joel

[BOB RUNCER]

  you guys are the best!  I believe you guys will there should I hit a snag.  I have a buddy who is a HD Mechanic doesn't mind helping out but has no specific experience with the Am Skier and only general boat knowledge.  He as all the tools work space which keeps my wife happier not having parts and oil spread over our driveway.  Just kidding but not..

I'll definitely do the tranny oil myself at the cabin this weekend thanks to all your suggestions.  I'll change it two or three times to really get the crap oil out of there.  So stay tuned guys.

New question,  the boat came with a inline water hose adapter tapped into the water line near the water pump.  I have heard his may not be the best way to cool the engine when servicing out of the water.  I have read that The water plunger to underside of the haul intake is the way to go. Thoughts?

[BOB RUNCER]

Just read the post on "servicing boat on Trailer".  Interesting why my boat would have the inline adapter for a hose?

[backfoot100]

Bob,
I'm guessing that inline adapter was added by somebody instead of having a fake-a-lake (the plunger thing you talked about). I personally have a fake-a-lake that works fine. Yes, the adapter is handy and for running on the trailer it works well. Just don't run it above 2K RPM as the water supply from your hose doesn't flow that much water at that RPM.

The only problem I have with an inline piece such as yours is that the convenience of just screwing in a hose can also be another potential failure point during normal running. By failure I'm not talking about anything breaking. I'm talking about introducing air leaks that can lead to the engine overheating.
Yours is a bit different too. Normally, I prefer to see them installed before the cooler so you don't have to worry about the tranny overheating but then you're not actually using the tranny either. At least you better not be on the trailer. The tranny fluid will never get that hot so it isn't a huge issue by any means. I'm still cautious about stuff like that though.

I do know a lot of guys that have installed them without problems so go ahead and keep it in there and use it. If you ever have any cooling issues, it's just another spot that is a potential problem that you need to check.

[Messer]

My Skier had one installed when I got it... I chunked it, replaced the hose with a little extra length and always pop the clamp and use a 5 gallon bucket as the water source when I need to run her on the trailer. This serves two purposes- 1. my hose cant keep up with the impeller suction and collapses on itself, 2. I can keep an eye on the amount of water suction via the 5 gal bucket method to ensure  plenty of cooling water is getting sucked thru.

[Joel]

And...  Fake-A-Lake's SUCK...       See Ron's explanation on how to service the boat on the trailer - its a little bit of a PITA, but you'll KNOW if your impeller and cooling hoses are working / not sucking air / etc... 

[BOB RUNCER]

Happy Days Gents, I took the boat out last weekend after the starter was rebuilt and I flushed the tranny.   All is good now.  Thank you for all your suggestions.....

[Joel]

Excellent!!!  Keep her tuned up, change the oil every season, tranny fluid every other, and make sure she is winterized properly prior to putting her away for the season.  Spark plugs, oil & tranny fluid are the best insurance you can buy.  She will keep you happy for years!  You can find directions on how to do all of the above in the tech sessions or just ask one of the more knowledgeable guys (not me... but I'm learning!!!)

Have fun and enjoy your new to you AM Skier!

Joel