Ski Boat Forum
Repairs and Maintenance => Engine Repair/Maintenance - All Ski Boats => Topic started by: keehr22 on March 12, 2011, 04:34:55 PM
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Quick question, looking at replacement reman engines for the skier. I've got the '01 Marine Power Vortec, it blew a head gasket and wore into the block face as well as the head surface. When ordering a replacement, will standard vortec heads work, or are the Marine Power heads required for my intake system?
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I dont know the answer to your question... but, what a DRAG!!!! Sorry to hear that! I'm sure one of the mechanics on here will chime in... :)
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Standard heads will work, but I'm sure most will tell you you need everything stainless in them, valves and such.
I'm going to put edelbrock heads on mine when I get around to it...... heads are the same its the internal components that differ.
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Cool, that's what I had thought, just wanted to double check before pulling the trigger on this.
I found a place that sells the 5.7 Vortec short block for $720, and another with the long block for $1980, short block with 90 days and long block with a 12 month parts warranty. I'm pretty sure the long block comes with standard vortec heads, nothing special. Anyone have any recommendations on cylinder heads if I went the short block route?
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Cam, Cam, Cam......... when I built my engine I called Indmar and the tech I spoke with basically told me do whatever I want with the bore, stroke, heads......... but DO NOT CHANGE THE CAM! if you buy a short block your gonna have to put a marine cam in it. You gotta make sure that wont hurt your warranty!
An automotive cam WILL NOT give you the performance you need.
I'm guessing your looking at an automotive style reman is the reason I say anything.
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Brandon,
If it was just the head gasket that failed, what do you mean by "it wore the block and head surface"? You should be able to take that head to any machine shop and get it checked/refaced unless it is warped beyond repair, and then just install a new head gasket and go boating. Did you have a major overheat or did the gasket just let loose? Ron should have the interchange information you are looking for, definitly consult him before buying a potentially wrong motor. Car motors will have some different parts and remember your boat motor spends more time at higher rpm's than your car (rephrase: most peoples cars!)
Brandon
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OK guys settle down, your not going to like what I have to say here. Because the ski boat industry is so competitive our engines often times have small differences from the kissin cousin counterparts found in light trucks. A Mercruiser 260 HP 5.7 might be pretty close to a truck set-up, besides the obvious marine components like exhaust, ignition, cooling etc. Engine builders like PCM, Indmar, Marine Power, and now ILmor buy their base engines al a cart, they choose the block, crank, pistons, cam, heads in a combination they want. Expect a little higher comp. ratio, hardened perhaps stainless valve seats, different cam than auto use etc. Then comes the ECM, compression ratio & camshafts must be matched to the ECM calibration. Each engine builder calibrates their ECMs to the engine type. Often adjusting the calibration to specific engine/boat models. Will a common auto reman work, maybe, will it run as good as the original, doubtful. All the components are designed to work together for maximum power and reliability. If you have a 1995 pick-up with a blown engine & want to put an available same size engine from a 1999 model chances are it may not even start unless you transfer the computer with it, this is how we have progressed to maximize performance.
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Something else to note, most of the reman or new crate motors (GM performance parts, etc.) have a note "Not for marine use" and will void the warranty if they found out you did install it in a boat. Again, if it just pushed the head gasket out and wasn't a major overheat you should be able to install a new head gasket and not have any issues.
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Forgot to mention, those prices mentioned are for marine specific engines, one offered by Fliteline and another by Mabbco.
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I would not go against what Ron has said. I was merely speaking as to what I did for myself. I tore down my indmar to bare block because of a seizure on the #4 main bearing. New crank, new rods, new pistons rings so on and so on.
I didn't buy marine specific anything as my machine shop guy checked the numbers on everything and it was same size and lengths as a stock 350 automotive. I did however buy a forged crank as that's what came out of it.
Now the heads were only freshened ....... . Only change I made there was to threaded studs as the pressed in were backing out of the holes.
I had no computer to deal with though, just a Carb I set up myself.
The block was punched .030 and I did put an edelbrock aluminum intake on it.
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Another note: Carb. vs. EFI engines are totally different when it comes to set-up. A carb engine is much more forgiving when it comes to swapping out parts, the EFI engines are carefully calibrated systems that must work together.
Of more importance is the cause & can it be prevented. I called Marine Power & had a lengthy conversation about this. The most common cause is detonation, detonation or "knock" can be caused by several things, a common one would be running too lean causing excessive heat in the combustion chamber. If these were multi-ports a specific injector partially blocked could do this, but we ran throttle bodies which would eliminate this. Another possible cause for our motors would be restricted fuel flow at higher rpms causing hot spots (think fuel filter)
Another remote possibility would be a faulty knock sensor not telling the ECM to retard the timing when detonation occurs. This should trigger a fault code, but then we are dealing with computers which I have learned not to trust.
Last possibility I can think of will be of interest to all with the EFI engines: We had brass "tee" fittings installed between the block & knock sensor (Starboard side of engine) to facilitate a drain fitting. This was approved by GM at the time but I am second guessing this arrangement. There is a sensitive crystal inside the knock sensor that "listens" for detonation. The brass fitting could be dampening the frequency and causing the knock sensor to miss some detonations. I WOULD REMOVE THE TEE FITTING AND THREAD THE KNOCK SENSOR DIRECTLY INTO THE BLOCK When it comes time for winterizing you will have to remove the knock sensor, (don't drop it).
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O.K. how many BRANDONS do we have??? I'm confused... ::) Brandon writing to Brandon and then Brandon replying... to BRANDON!!! ??? :o Figured it was time to lighten up the mood a bit!!!
Anyway, whichever one of you Brandons shows up at KY Lake you can ski behind my boat if your boat isnt ready... :)
Joel
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Tennessee Brandon here, well the decision is in, the AmSkier is for sale, temporarily. Threw it up to see what happens, if I get an offer that works it'll sell, if not I'm putting her back together.
2 weeks on the market is the limit, otherwise i run the risk of missing valuable boat season time, and with my unknown military deployment schedule I need to make the most out of all the summer I can get back here! $8000 is the magic number...We're looking for an open bow direct drive in the 8k-12k range, with the Mastercraft Maristar at the top of the list.
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Sorry to hear that. Sucks you've had some tough luck with her. Hopefully someone will buy it. We also own a 2008 Moomba Outback. We love it.
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Really sorry to hear that... its a beauty of a boat, but, ya gotta do what ya gotta do :( Regardless of your boat builder preferences, your STILL coming to the AM Skier Reunion... even if I gotta drag your butt down there ( thats my Chief's voice if you didnt recognize it ;) Like I said, you can ski with me all day! 8)
Joel
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We're definitely in for the reunion still, going to be a great time! Couple of bites on the boat now, but no follow through. Phil, we've looked at a couple Moombas now, in the 13k range we can get a lot of boat with the Outback. How does yours do in the chop, is it any better with rough water than the skier?
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Oh yeah, a lot better in the chop The slalom wake is not quite as good though. And I definitely don't get as many "thumbs ups".
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Hey guys, I'm having the same issue with my '99 Volante. I'm looking at dropping a new engine in, who do you guys recommend getting one from? I've found new 5.7's from about $2,500-$3,000. The place that looking the most promising is S & J Engines online. Any help?
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Talk to Ron and/or Dan Tanis...
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Keehr22,
Great!!! How many? What kind of boat? Dinner on Sat night? Do you have a slip or trailering? See the "Reunion Update" thread. I'm trying to get a "little bit" organized with a group dinner, but its mostly just gonna be FUN on the with no real schedule, etc...
Joel
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I have available new 5.7 base engines available pre-painted with our Blue Thunder color currently at $3395 plus shipping
I also have Marine Power re-man engines also from Marine Power pre-painted currently at $2495 plus shipping
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If your looking for versatility then a Comp Ski Boat probably isnt the best choice IMHO... A nice boat you can ski behind with a decent wake and still perform well in the middle of the lake ON A WEEKEND while meeting all the "family" needs, space, etc, is what you need. My wife loves to ski, but the Advance doesnt meet HER or the KIDS need to bring along a bunch of STUFF and/or friends... :(
Personally, a nice 21' SeaRay will meet all those needs and still has a decent wake, but that means you downgrade to an I/O and I/Os are typically underpowered and a PAIN to maintain (unless you can do it yourself). Some of the longer inboard bow riders will probably do the trick but they can get pricey VERY fast. I've heard Moomba provides more boat for less $$ (much like a Bayliner) and they are very stylish (much like a Bayliner) but be wary, you get what you pay for...
For any boat your thinking of buying - look very carefully at the upholstery & the back sides of the seats for thickness/fit & finish, in the holds, engine compartment, under the seats, behind the carpet (if you can) and under the console for unfinished edges/shortcuts. Shop around a little and compare "apples to apples" with other brands for fit/finish & quality construction, through-hull fittings & cleats (not screwed into the fiberglass), electrical installations & organized wiring (not a jumbled mess), steering & rudder components, etc... In the long run it will pay off!!
Good luck buddy! We'll see ya'all at the Reunion!!!
Joel
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I've got the new engine in, but I was wondering about timing? Any instructions, help? Anything would be appreciated.