Ski Boat Forum
Repairs and Maintenance => Boat Maintenance - American Skier => Topic started by: Joel on September 13, 2010, 09:30:15 PM
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Can anyone walk me through a standard winterization of an inboard boat, including all the engine petcocks, plugs, etc, that need to be drained prior to the first big freeze??? I think I missed draining the heater lines last year which resulted in a busted heater core... live & learn.
Any guidance, assistance, experience, direction, or just plain ole help would be greatly appreciated :)
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Joel,
I always get a 5 gallon bucket full of radiator fluid and place the intake hose in the bucket, start the engine, and suck the whole bucket dry. Then Change the engine oil and filter. Change the fuel water separator filter. Grease trailer bearings. Remove battery and place it on a battery tender all winter. And lastly buff, wax, and cover boat.
John Kyle Doerfler
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I seem to recall that it is best to get the engine up to operating temperature prior to using the fake-a-lake so that the thermostat is wide open? I disconnect the heater hoses and blow them out first so that they are completely empty before getting anti-freeze. For those of you with newer boats, do not forget to disconnect the speedo tubing from the Medallion MDC. I made that $400 mistake once!!
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I thought for sure I had posted this in this forum last season(?) I can't find it
sucking antifreeze out of a bucket is almost right- I use Propylene glycol AUTOMOTIVE Antifreeze , NOT the pink RV stuff , Sierra / Low Tox
find it @ Tractor Supply , Ace can order it
hopefully you added fuel stabilizer to your fuel on your last outing, if not do it now
I prefer stabilized fuel and as little of it as possible left in the tank, 1/2 tank is least desirable, Full tank is ok , but you end up with a full tank of stale gas
in the spring, so burn it off wakeboarding, not barefooting. Stabil is the crowd favorite, but lately I've really come to like "Sea Foam" it's in a metal 1 pint can
(good stuff)
I like to pull the intake hose off @ the trans oil cooler input side then I can clean the debris out of it (mostly for those without sea water strainers)
(I have a 3-4' length of hose and attach it to the cooler and place the other end in my bucket)
before you run it on your bucket of antifreeze run it on fresh water to get it to temp, position the trailer so the water goes away from the boat
not under the boat.
get it up to operating temperature so she starts back up right away and idles smoothly
have all your other supplies ready too, spray fogging oil for carbed engines and TBI , multi port port motors are DRY intake and need to stay DRY
so do not fog your MPI
Drain the water from the block and exhaust manifolds, manifold cooling hoses, water pump hoses etc
the less water in the engine and surrounding hoses the less your solution will be diluted
re secure the drain plugs / hoses etc (EFI carefully remove knock sensor, drain , re-install)
some of us like to remove the t-stat - when removed it allows a more direct path to the engine for the antifreeze,
(the housing does have a small bypass hole, so this is not manditory)
without the t-stat installed there's a much bigger path. otherwise most of the solution will go right to the exhaust manifolds.
remove the spark arrestor
fill your bucket with antifreeze solution good for your area ( mine will be good for @ least -20), usually 4-5 gallons
fire it up and let her suck it down (another reason Fake a lakes suck)
with about a gallon left start spraying your fogging oil down her throat choke it out just as the last of the antifreeze gets sucked down
what's left? put it all back together , did you change your oil yet? I might have done that while the water was draining from the block
but be careful you want water out the transom drain , oil drain hose out the center drain (garbard drain if Ron is reading)
if your engine is @ temp your oil will flow freely, if not it takes FOREVER. (and now you know why you want it dry under the boat :)
fresh oil and filter in the fall not the spring, double check the level before you clean up
fix anything else that may be broken or worn out do it now b4 you put it away for the winter.
cap, rotor , wires, & plugs (?)
grease rudder shaft
remove the battery from the boat, put it somewhere that will be above freezing and NOT directly on Concrete
trailer maintenance
CLEAN THE BOAT wax it, get the carpet dry, ETC ETC ETC
Did you reinstall your T-Stat? (I use a perma-seal gasket RTV instead of a new gasket)
Electronic gauge owners carefully take the little hoses off @ the MDC to drain any water that may be there, if not you'll be calling me in June
about the only thing required to do in the spring is reinstall your freshly charged battery
insert transom and center / garbard drain plugs
and top off the tank with fresh fuel, everything else should have been put back together b4 winter..........
that about covers most of it
good luck or bring it over
Dan T
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Stupid question here. I never see the 40's much less below... do I need to winterize?
Ill probly put her in the lake just to ride around once or twice a month till it gets hot again.
Just curious. I dont plan on doing the gas stuff, cause I plan on running it out, or running it monthly. I was wondering about all the block stuff and antifreeze though.
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Simple answer is No, that said here in the South we still get cold snaps that can damage an engine. Areas that see high 20's at night & warm to 40's in the day have little to worry about. The 24hr+ below freezing is when damage begins, MDC's on newer boats, heater cores & showers are the first to go. An Iron engine block takes a while for the remaining heat to be absorbed. There are 2 things southern skiers do to get through, A) leave the boat in the water absorbing heat from the lake (covered of course) or B) place a 100W Conventional light bulb under the oil pan & cover back up. For those who didn't ask its 91 here today.
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Great advice Ron!
John Kyle Doerfler
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it's only 71 here today :(
up here in the north we winterize our boats generally b4 Thanksgiving , usually a lot sooner
when does rust grow best on cast iron? when it's wet with water or dry?
with our season so short and 6-7 months in storage anti-freeze in block not only
protects again freezing ,,,,,,, but also includes rust inhibitors, and that's why I keep my winterized
engines "wet" the anitfreeze stays in the block and all the plugs are re-installed
Florida boys can get away with a light bulb when the concern is near
it was 47 labor day morning...... we still skied :)
Dan T
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47 degrees!!! Your an ANIMAL!!!! ;D My brother skies competitively and he has some pics of his younger years in a dry suit coming around a buoy with snow flakes in the air... I dont think he's THAT dedicated anymore 8)
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bump (so I don't have to write it again ;) )
Dan T
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The light bulb works great untill you have an ice storm and loose power for a week like we did in 2000.
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I didn't realize that I could fog TBI. Where do I put it?
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SLOWLY pour down both Throttle bores alternating side to side while engine is idling, as soon as engine begins to run rough & spew smoke your done, I prefer to use 2 stroke oils.
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Thanks. I have done it with a carb before. Didn't think I could do it with TBI. I will take a look
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TBI no problem
Direct injection / MPI - DO NOT FOG
Carb - no problem
I prefer fogging oil in a spray can - point and shoot
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I prefer fogging mine with good ole gasoline!!! at least once or twice a month :P
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Dan,
You wrote "I use Propylene glycol AUTOMOTIVE Antifreeze , NOT the pink RV stuff , Sierra / Low Tox - find it @ Tractor Supply , Ace can order it..." So i have a couple of questions:
1. Why cant we use the pink RV stuff??? The ingredients are Propylene Glycol along with some rust inhibitors, etc, and its good for -50 F..???
2. Is it permissable to forego fogging through the carb as long as you fog each cylinder via the spark plug hole???
The reason I ask is... you guessed it... I just put the pink stuff in my block and I wasnt fast enough to get the carb fogging done prior to the pink stuff getting sucked down :(
Thanks
Joel
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Joel - you'll be good to go
the pink stuff - primarily available fro RV water systems - , drinking water, toilet systems etc
and not necessarily intended for marine engines........... will it work - of course it will,
I prefer using anti freeze intended to be used in Marine engines (and/or automotive engine applications)
Frigid guard, sierra, low tox - are propylene glycol - pet safe environmentally more friendly than ethylene glycol
oiling the cylinders through the spark plug holes is a much more labor intensive but will do the trick :)
no worries man the biggest dealio here is getting the WATER out b4 you add the antifreeze
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Cool.... Got MOST of it out - ran the engine up to 160 F, opened both block drains, etc, closed her back up and then ran 5 gallons through the intake until pink stuff came out of the exhausts. I think were good :)
Unfortunately, Summer is officially over... :(
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Joel have you done this b4?
if you got all of the water out b4 you sucked down the pink stuff
and after you ran it again pink was @ the exhaust - check both block drains for pink stuff too
(it will be there)
the only reason we run the engine to temp is to get the oil warm enough so it flows out fast
and to circulate the fuel stabilizer
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Right now I wish I were doing some of these winterizations, if was 98 here yesterday!
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Dan,
Yep I do my own winterizing, but had never used the RV stuff before. I typically run the motor to temp to open the T-Stat prior to sucking up the anti-freeze and warm up the oil prior to changing it out... I also spray the carb with fogger until she dies but had my son "helping" me and didnt get to it before all the pink stuff got sucked up. I ALWAYS fog each cylinder as well :) In the spring I usually get quite a bit of smoke while she burns off the fogging oil - I tell the neighbors I'm fogging for mosquitoes :)
One thing I havent been able to do is change out the fuel/water filter - its low to the hull and its on TIGHT! The last thing I want to do is rip it up or crush it and NOT be able to get it all the way off... so far it hasnt been an issue, but I know I'm boating on borrowed time in that regard :( Any suggestions on how to get the damn thing off would be helpful :)
Ron,
Lucky you... I had to stop skiing a MONTH ago... September is usually VERY nice skiing - most put their boats away after Sept 1st - but this year it went straight to FALL at least 30 days early. Renee and the kids wont go out if the water or air is too chilly - wimps :(
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Joel, the fuel water seperator is only like $25 or $30 with the filter brand new (housing part and filter part) and the housing should be held on with a couple of bolts to the ski pole frame or at least thats where mine is mounted.
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Thanks bro! Mine is mounted to the port side stringer just in front of the engine. I'll check it out at a marine supply AFTER I try multiple soakings in PB Blaster, etc... I'll have a spare one on hand just in case I destroy it in the process.
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In fact I have not shipped that other trinket yet, I have a brand new one here I didn't use for another project if you want/need it.
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When I get a stubborn fuel filter I cut the lines, unbolt it from the stringer, take it to the vise, & turn it off, I have a large vise & a 48" pipe wrench, its coming off...(don't use heat like a coon-ass did down here) Once off I take the housing to the wire wheel, & clean up the housing especially inside, once reconditioned you will change the filter every year just so you don't have to go through that again. (use plenty of oil on the gasket)
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Mike, I appreciate the offer, but I think (HOPE) I'll be able to get it off via Ron's suggestion. My local Marine Shop will let me use his vise & wire wheel. I'll send ya an email if that doesnt work.
Ron, As always - MUCH-O APPRECIATED-O :) l wonder what happened to the coon-ass.... let me see, using HEAT on a fuel / water seperator... common sense would dictate that it just might have some FUEL left in it... Uhhhhmmmmm... did it BLOW UP??? :)
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Well, it has officially dropped below 60 degrees here in central Florida. Its now time to winterize!!!!!! :P ::) ;D
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it's below 60 here too, or 60 below, I think I can keep my wetsuit on the hanger til next spring
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it's almost that time of year again :(
Dan T
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Speak for yourself! ;D
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Yep... the weather went straight to FALL once again. I sure was looking forward to a few days on the lake all by myself and skiing on GLASS... but its just not meant to be... Sept 1st hit and we havent had a warm day since. Guess its time to get her all cleaned up, oiled up, stabil in the gas, antifreeze in the block and put her to bed... DAMMIT!!!! >:(
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I keep hearing about putting treatment in the fuel to store a boat. Wouldnt it be just as easier or better to pump the gas out of the tank and start fresh next season? Im not being smart, this is a legit question.
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A legit question Mike, and one that has been debated for years.
A few problems can come into play here.
1) You'll never get all the gas out by syphoning or pumping it out. There will always be a little left in there which I can attest to will turn nasty in a short period of time. How short, I really don't know but 1/2" deep fuel spread out over the bottom of a tank will turn very nasty much quicker than say 10" of fuel pread out over the tank. Just as an example mind you.
2) The tank will sweat over the winter months inducing condensate which is water which doesn't do well in a gas tank. This can be bad for the remaining gas in the tank, the fittings, fuel lines or anything else associated. Condensate can also cause extra nasty s**t to happen if you get enough of it and it freezes. Especially in fuel lines or fittings. Keeping a full tank of gas in it prevents this but then you potentially have crap gas in it after several months. Sta-bil definitely helps to keep the gas usable in the spring. Just don't expect to set water speed records with it. Just get it used up and fill with fresh as soon as possible. The newer ethanol fuels makes this situation even worse.
Another problem induced with a full tank is that when it gets cold over the winter months the tank will contract, when it contracts if it was filled up at the time of storage guess what happens? Fuel spills out from the vent and you have a floor full of fuel. Ask me how I know this. So to combat that, you only fill it up about 3/4 of a tank. Then you only have to worry about the aforementioned condensation.
It's a viscious circle. I got tired of that crap and just moved south. Problem solved.....LOL
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Well thats my answer as well, skiing in December and all year long. Just wondering about those who cannot.
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the shelf life of gasoline just isn't all that long like maybe 30 days or so
at the very least for you southern skier add a fuel stabilizer on your last tank
or through out the fall if you don't when your last outing will be
then @ least the fuel in the lines and carb will be stabilized and less likely to gunk up
with a several month lay over, I'd have no issue siphoning the tank then and using that fuel in my
car , bike , snowblower, snowmobile ( Eddie remember what those are?) etc and then yes add fresh fuel in the spring
I'd much rather see a tank empty over the winter than full, because of the above mentioned concerns
1/2 full is about the worst - I don't really know why but it has been said the most condensation occurs with a half full or half empty tank (?)
full tank = least condensation - but a full tank of stale gas come spring -
Dan T
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I think an argument could be made about the condensation issue (tank being full or empty). Isn't ethanol fuel even more prone to collect moisture?
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yes
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Yep... Ethanol loves moisture... thats why most marinas carry ethanol free gasoline. Worse comes to worse fill it up at a Marina and run a bottle of stabil through it on your last day out... you gotta get the Stabil throughout your system for it to be effective and filling it up with ethanol free gasoline is even better.
Its best to keep the tank full (or almost full) when storing because of condensation build up when 1/2 full... Empty is the WORST for all the above reasons... You'll just have to deal with the stale gas come Spring. The good part is your boat will use up the stale gas the first time out on the lake so you dont have to worry about it for too long. She'll probaby run crappy though...
Eddie, you should have a loop in your gas tank vent line - this will help keep the gas in the tank when it contracts, during sharp turns, etc, when its full or nearly full.
Joel
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The arguement about how to store your fuel tank in boats has, can, and will probably go on forever. Here is my experience. Remember fuel stabilizer is just that, it will stabilize and slow the degradation of fuel in the CONDITION THE FUEL IS IN WHEN ADDED. It will NOT MAKE "BAD" FUEL "GOOD". In every boat I have owned and worked on I have never (yet) had a condition where the stabilized fuel has caused such a power loss or issue that it was noticible. This is from pwc's to twin engine powerboats (remember an extra person in the boat can usually make a noticable performance difference, so is it the fuel or the load on the boat causing the issue?) that "good" fuel was stabilized and then run thru fuel system when winterized.
As far as full or empty tank, I agree that full is better due to less chance of major condensation, but in my experience I have never (yet) seen condensation so bad that it caused IMMEDIATE problems in Spring. However, I do agree that the condensation over time will do damage to the fuel system with corrosion and the debris from corrosion (probably a majority of the fuel problems found have something to do with corrosion). It would be tough to argue that it is all from not storing the boat with a full tank of fuel though, you don't think there is any chance of expansion and contraction of the fuel tank while bouncing around in a lake or river in the middle of Summer (65F in morning and 95F during day) causing a reasonable amount of this moisture also?
I think the key point to be made in this discussion is to perform the REQUIRED preventative maintenence to reduce or eliminate the risk of problems in Spring. IE:stabilize "good" fuel, change water seperating fuel filters, etc.
Again, just my experiences and opinion.
* Another note, I think the fuel formulations have gotten worse in the past 3-5 years so my experiences with noticable performance loss may be "older" gas formulations.
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Forgive my ignorance but everyone seems to be worried about 2 things. 1 is moisture in the fuel 2. is degraded fuel.
I'm not arguing at all here just asking questions and liking the opinions given.......
Doesn't everyone have a fuel moisture separator on their boat? Or is that something that someone had added to mine after new? Wouldn't this piece of equipment take the moisture that may build up out of the system? Or are you worried that there will be so much that it will simply overtake the separator?
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Mike, Its standard on our boats. It takes out the moisture, but what were talking about is what the moisture and crap fule does while the boat is sitting for months at a time. The moisture will cause corrosion to the tank, the lines, etc... The ethanol will turn to goop... Stabilze GOOD gas and keep it full while in storage.
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Mike
Not every boat has a water seperating fuel filter. I think Ron has mentiond that it was standard on the American Skiers, but not every company installed them. The other thing and the more important point to my reply was to make sure you do the preventative maintenence such as replacing the $8.00 filter yearly to avoid any issues. Some of my maintenence "standards" may be overkill, but in the Midwest the season is short and being down for a week or two to save $50 in parts doesn't make sense. I used to change my impeller every other year. I know some that have been in 15 years, but I don't want to risk a lost weekend (which wouldn't happen because I keep a new one in my toolbox anyway!) My key point is to do the preventative maintenence and most problems will be avoided. Most boats I worked on as repairs were because of lack of maintenence/care.
One key note, people with tournament inboard ski boats as a whole tend to take way better care of their boats than say owners with a std runabout, powerboat, or definitly fishing boat! Just an observation over the years.
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Cool. I do alot of shadetree stuff, not much on boats in the past but I am learning. I just appreciate all the info here and like to read the reasons why people have their opinions.
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Fuel / water seperator: All of the newer A/S boat have-em, some of the very original ones didn't. A very late model ski boat in my shop right now (Brand X, most expensive ski boat on the market) still does not have one, they rely on a cheap inline filter like on my lawn tractor. Customer was complaining about only reaching 3500 rpm, I replaced the in-line filter & the fuel cell filter & now the boat runs 5600 rpm-wot.
The spin on filter we use is designed to filter the fuel and separate the water allowing it to settle in the bottom of the can, however the alcohol in the fuel today is counteracting this and "dissolves" the water into the gas. This is why most suppliers of the spin on replacement filters have increased the filtering to 10 microns. A small in-line 10 micron filter will clog up much faster than a large capacity 10 micron filter.
Bottom Line: A/S boats were built better! Change your spin on fuel filter every year or every 75hrs.
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Just finished winterization :'( I'm getting too old for this crap! Why cant it be summer ALL THE TIME?
Topped off the fuel & added a bottle of StaBil, ran her up to temp (hopefully sucked up some StaBil into the system), sucked up two gallons of antifreeze (till it spewed out green from the exhaust), changed the oil with Mobil 1 full synthetic 10W30, removed the impeller (its shot - probably tore it during my futile attempt to remove it), fogged each cylinder & changed spark plugs (irridium tipped - whatever that means). Renee picked up the plugs for me... Over $6 each... She asked "is that expensive? Because I know you only want the best for your STUPID boat..." Gotta love her ;D
Ready for a long winter nap... Spring will be here shortly!!!! Ron, I'm gonna need an impeller before May :)
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Still summer here bro, come on down!
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Gotcha covered Joel, BTW, I have to wake up the rescue boat, youngest son David is completing his tour in the Middle East & should be home in 2 weeks & wants to go skiing, we are down to the mid 80's here 8)
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Have I ever mentioned that I hate you guys... >:(
We had to stop over a month ago! Not my choice but the wife & kids REFUSE to go out on the lake when the air gets chilly... Its the BEST time to ski because all the freakin' yahoos arent there... Anyway, ya'all have a great time skiing in the warm weather!
Tell your boy I said "Thank you for your service! Now go ski your ass off... thats an order!!!"
Joel
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Roger That.
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ok it was 30 degrees here last night ............the water in your engine will not freeze with one night @ 30 degrees when day temps are 50+
we would need several days under 30 to be concerned , enjoy the October glass :)
Dan T
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sorry guys I just have to drag this old thread back up so I don't have to retype the whole thing
I guess it's September somewhere already - another month or so of summer / skiing here
then it will be time put'em away :(
Dan T