Ski Boat Forum
General Category => General American Skier Discussions => Topic started by: MaxA on October 14, 2013, 07:54:55 PM
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Hi, i'm 13 and just bought a 1985 volante, so i will need some help. It has a 351 ford windsor with the commander conversion. The engine has gt40 heads on it, so it is at least 285hp. I'm not sure what other upgrades it has. It was getting no spark, so we put a new coil in. We also found out it had a 450cfm carb, so we got a rebuilt 600cfm. It has the wrong starter in it (verified by Dan Tanis), so we will have to get a new one. The interior is in great condition, and the paint will have to be wet sanded. The trailer is really bad, there is no saving it. Im am confused about the year because the only boat made in 85 was the advance, so any help with that is appreciated. I am also confused because it has a molded swim platform. Any help would be great, and i love this website! I will get more pics on soon. Thanks in advance. Max
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Welcome aboard!! 13??? I think my first boat project was around that age, we had a summer shop course at my Jr. High between 7th & 8th grades, & I fiberglassed the bottom of a small hydroplane. My brother Dan currently has one of these models & can be a great resource. Send me a PM with the HIN (serial number in the transom) and I will decipher it for you. The Model is a "Volante" closed bow model, we re-used the name Volante a few years later for the open bow model. Back in those days if a customer wanted a Volante we built him one, 1985, 1986, but they were not advertised in those years, as we were slammed with Advance orders. As for the Trailer yours looks to an original American Skier trailer, it may or may not be re-storable. Most people will replace with a generic fit's-all trailer for $3-4K I have started building replacement OEM trailers in the off season if interested.
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Max - Welcome aboard glad you got in finally :)
you'll be in good hands here and we'll do what we can to help you out and get you in the water (and out)
Like I told your dad and as Ron already mentioned - I too have one - and mine's an '86
great find @ a great deal
Dan T
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Thanks for the quick replies! Ron, this isn't my first boat project. Im also building a 12ft skiff out of wood and fiberglass! Here are some more pics. Forgot to mention, we only payed 500 for it.
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The exhaust manifolds are worth $500 alone! That trailer looks very re-storable, but I would definitely add brakes to it. A new custom trailer can run 5-6K
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My trailer looked worse than yours before I went through it and "restored" it to usable condition.
The trailers are built very sturdy and unless you have some holes in the main beams that I cant see I wouldnt think there is any reason that your trailer cannot be reconditioned.
I see something in the bottom of the boat that seems to say "treasure coast", are you in FLA?
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Mike,
My brother pointed out to me that the pic showing the drivetrain when viewed on this site crops off the last 3' of stb. side main frame rail when enlarged. Apparently the rail is severely rotted away below the bunk-board. This would require a very close inspection of the whole trl. to determine if this is the limit of the corrosion, if so it could be sectioned, if not & it is found that the paint is holding the trailer together, then I would replace the whole trailer. I thought the same thing you did because what I saw looked good.
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Wow, to bad Im such a computer idiot ;D I didnt see that either. I would think it would be worth blasting to at least see exactly what he has to work with.
Like you say though, without getting a look at exactly what steel is there and more impartantly what isnt.......
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Mike, the trailer is toast. I have the pics to prove it. Yes live in Florida, Cocoa Beach. The carb we ordered also came in yesterday! Now we just need a starter.
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Shazam!!! yeah that is a turd...... Seen a lot of salt water action?
Im in Saint Cloud. Ive been in and out and under the floorboards of an Advance (mine). If there is anything I can do to help or any advice I can give just let me know.
I will always refer to Ron Tanis because he built these boats and he knows whats up, but if you need a hand with something Im only a short ride away and very well might be able to lend a hand. Might have "been there done that"
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Mike, yeah the previous owner went scalloping in the gulf. ??? Ron, i have a quick question. Im getting a new starter and would like to verify that this is what i need. I need a top mount ccw starter. This is the one i think i need.
http://www.jmsonline.net/arco-starter-cc-lh-arc-50135.htm?gclid=CPGzoKGKproCFSEV7AodHHkAmw (http://www.jmsonline.net/arco-starter-cc-lh-arc-50135.htm?gclid=CPGzoKGKproCFSEV7AodHHkAmw)
Thanks
Max
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I can count on one hand how many top mount starters i have seen on Ford engines, and that was 30 years ago. Chevrolets however were numerous & it is a different part number. However it does need to be a CCW Starter. GM uses a 2 bolt flange, is yours a 3 bolt?? The part you were looking at has a 2.750" extension flange, (2) 3/8" bolts & (1) 5/16 threaded hole
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Yes, it is a 3 bolt. :)
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Hey man, there is an American Skier trailer in Casselberry for $800 on craigslist.
http://orlando.craigslist.org/boa/4087598221.html (http://orlando.craigslist.org/boa/4087598221.html)
may just be the ticket you are looking for
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Mike, that boat is a 18ft, mine is 21. Thanks for suggesting it though. :D
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Ron you better look at the pics again ........ It's not a Chevy ;)
Dan T
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10 years from now we'll see how good your short term memory is smart a&$ :-[
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@ least still have SOME of my vision :P
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Hi, the trailer that mike posted is still on craigslist for 700. It is for a 18 foot skier, but is there any chance that my boat will fit on it? The trailers look the same, does anybody know the difference between the two? Any information would be great! Thanks, Max
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If your serious about the trailer I would call Ron and ask him what he thinks. You cant always go by what you see but according to what I see the trailer is newer than the boat. At least that's what the decals would suggest on the trailer. Those decals are Advance decals if I am not mistaken, and all Advance boats to my knowledge were longer than 18'.
The trailer looks exactly like my trailer and the decals make me think its newer as well. Im no end all be all but Im thinking its an Advance trailer.
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I have not seen the trailer in question but neither the 18' skier trailer or the Advance trailer would fit a Volante, the width between fenders is a big issue, bow stop position & angle is different between the 18 & Advance but also the weight capacity would be a concern. All the OEM trailers were designed for the basic boat with fuel and many were designed before the various minimum brake laws went into effect. Most states now require brakes at 3,000# & above. I am seeing a lot of overloaded OEM trailers out there with typical causes: fat sacks, towers, giant stereos, etc. I just finished building a new single axle trailer for a Volante & used a 5200# axle, & 6 lug, 15" wheels with 2800# capacity, each. The Older OEM trailers had 3500# capacity axles, add rust & corrosion & tired springs & it may now safely carry 1500#s
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http://orlando.craigslist.org/boa/4087598221.html (http://orlando.craigslist.org/boa/4087598221.html)
Ron, click on this link to see pictures of the trailer
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And for goodness sake please ignore the pics of that poor boat........
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Thanks Mike, I would agree that it's probably an Advance trailer, there are a couple hints, the A/S decal, the NMMA Trailer decal & the bow stop. It also looks like someone chopped the tongue & turned it into a removable tongue, Cant tell how much clearance is between the fenders & hull, but with a creative cutting & welding it could be widened. They have also loaded the boat from a deep ramp & were off center a few times judging by the chewed up bunks. The boat windshield is the only thing I caught as incorrect for the stated year, but it does need a lot of work.
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Today I got a new starter! I also got some oil and a oil filter. So this weekend we will try to fire it up! I will keep you posted, I'm sure there is more trouble ahead. Thanks, Max
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Update
Today it finally decided to run, and it was LOUD! ;D The starter was spinning very slow so we went through all the wires and sanded the terminals. That didn't help, so we went through all the wires again and found one that was severely corroded. Luckily we had one that was the same size so we bolted it on and after 4 years of not running, it fired up instantly! The only gauges that worked was the oil pressure and the battery. But i could tell it was running warm because i couldn't hold my hand on the exhaust manifolds for more that a couple seconds. But it was drawing plenty of water from the bucket? So tomorrow we will pull the gas tank and clean it (we were running it out of a 5 gallon tank). Thanks, Max
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Hi guys, i got a update. I recently bought a trailer for a "volante", turns out it was for a 1991 volante. So it doesn't fit my boat. But, i am taking it to a welder and he will be welding brackets on the cross members to put the bunks on (kinda like the new nautique trailers). I'm not getting the new trailer welded until Saturday, so i decided to replace the floors in that time period. Today i got them all cut out. But I'm very confused. I'm 99% positive that these are the original floors, but when i pulled them out there was no foam. Or any traces of foam in the past. Did it come from the factory with no foam? Anyway, i hope to be on the water soon, is there still gona be a mini reunion in Florida at the end of march? I might be able to attend it. Thanks, Max
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1) USCG does not require flotation foam in boats 20'+ . HOWEVER I am not aware of any boat builder who does not foam their boats that are less than 25' in length including A/S ( our 24' Eagles had foam) My best explanation is this: your boat would have been built in the new Ocoee plant with new employees, new plant manager and a lot of confusion. Many came from the Regal plant in Orlando where they build many large boats. A closed bow Volante in production in Ocoee was an odd build as most were Advances, and it IS possible that it did come out that way.
2) I would foam the hull, it will add rigidity, and quieter, feel better on the water.
3) I would pull the motor, allow the hull to normalize before replacing the floor and locking in the now deformed hull shape, the closed bow Volante hull is VERY sensitive to this. Besides it will force you to correct the alignment issues.
4) Yes I plan on being available in the Orlando area on Saturday April 5th for the day. Open to anything, repairs, free guidance, BS session??
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Say when and where Ron. The wife and I might be able to get out and do dinner or something with you and yours....... boating is out of the question Im sad to say, she had back surgery on Wednesday but all went well and she is recovering nicely, boating not an option though.
I may be able to get my dads "toon" If you wanted to troll Butler
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Hi guys, i got a few questions.
1. I started unhooking every thing that was connecting the motor to the boat. I decided to loosen the motor mounts because they looked a little rusty. I got the top nut free, but how do i get to the bottom two in the rear of the boat? There is no room for a wrench, there is a lip on the motor mount blocking access.
2. When i got the boat, i saw a bad patch job on one of the exhaust pipes. But today when i pulled of that exhaust hose from the headers to the fiberglass tube, i saw the damage was much worse. My guess is that the center piece of floor broke then fell on the pipe. What do i do about this? Do i have to replace the whole pipe? Or can i just buy a new piece of that angle and connect it with the rubber exhaust pipe?
3. When i have the engine out is their anything i should replace? I'm will replace the damper plate. And my oil pan (its super rusty). Does anybody have a oil pan for a 351 commander?
Thanks, Max
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I have an assortment of strangely shaped, cut, bent wrenches that I use. Normally you would loosen the top nut, send in a pry bat & lift the trunion a little while turning the lower nut with your fingers. In your case I would remove all 4 top nuts, lube, and lift the motor out, then remove the mounts and clean them up, dress the threads, paint etc.
The mufflers need to be replaced look at the standard 3" mufflers at the new American SKier Parts Site: SkiBoatPartsOnline.com
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Hi guys, i got a update! I worked all day on Saturday and about half of sunday, and i think i made good progress. I started by pulling the engine, all that went smooth. I rented a lift from a local rental depot, and it worked great. I noticed when disconnected the driveshaft, that the coupler dropped. But i could just lift it back up where is used to be. When it comes to re alignment, do i adjust the motor down? Or do i just lift it back up to the transmission? I also made a homemade crate for the motor to sit in until i unbolt the transmission and get a engine stand.
After i pulled the motor, i started to trace out the old floors on my plywood. Ron, i ended up getting marine plywood instead of foam board. The shop that i bought my wood from had the foam board, but they said it would cost about 1600$ to do my floor! Anyway, i cut out the floor. Then sanded to get a nice fit. Now i just need to get some resin, then next weekend ( if i have the resin) i will start to put the floors in.
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Hi everybody. Its been a long time since i posted an update, but things have been getting done. The floors have been done for about 3 weeks now. Once all the pieces were cut, i coated the bottoms and the edges with epoxy. I cut out the ski pylon hole, and the holes behind the foot rest, and coated the inside of those with epoxy. I replaced the wood support piece that is in front of the ski pylon, and put the foam stop in? Not sure what its called, but it goes in between the stringers. Then i screwed the floor into the stringers with SS screws. After that i packed fillet in the gap between the hull and floor. I fiberglassed the side to the hull, then finished everything with a layer of fiberglass on the top. The day after this got done, i got on a plane and left to go up north for a month. While i was gone, my dad started to tear apart the engine. He separated the bellhousing from the block to get it on a stand. There is a small exhaust leak on the starboard side, so he got the exhaust manifold off to put a new gasket on and replace the bolts. Two bolts broke off, but they came out very easily with PB blaster and a pair of vice grips. That's where it is right now. I ordered a flex plate from Ron, it came very quick and looks nice. Thanks. Not amskier, but earlier in the thread i mentioned i was building a boat, that is also done. Here are some pics Sorry for the bad floor pics
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Hi guys. I need to replace my T-Stat. Should i get a 143 or 160? My motor is a 351 Ford, and it has some upgrades. Would the upgrades effect the temp? Thanks, Max
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I use & recommend the 160
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Ok, thanks!
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Alright, i want to apologize for the lack of updates through this project. I really wanted to make it detailed and helpful like Mike or Messer's thread, but i guess I'm just to lazy. :'( Anyway, the boat is done, and has been done since christmas eve. Ive been using it alot and have only had a few minor problems that have been resolved fairly easy. Last time i posted there was no engine in it, and i had just finished the floors. Got the engine in, but it had and still has a knock coming from the tranny when going slow in gear. It kinda sounds like a bunch of marbles in it. I replaced the damper plate, so i don't think it is that. Oh well, it dosent bother me that much. I spent a long time battling some leaky secondaries on the carb also, but finally got it sorted. For the carpet i went with a tan color. The boat originally had a burgundy carpet, but it was hot on the feet and made the boat feel real small. I like the light color alot better, but it gets dirty quick. Oh well. I also replaced the gauges (except the airguides) with some new tele flex ones, only half of the old ones worked, so i just did them all. The boat is also sitting on its new (to me) trailer. Im very happy with it so far, it flys on the water (47 mph) and has a nice wake for wake boarding. I want to try footing but i don't have a boom. Is a boom a necessity for someone learning? Is it possible to get up from a deepwater start the first time? Sorry for lame picture, ill try to snap a few tomorrow. Thanks for all the help guys, this forum is great!
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Max,
Thanks for the update. Seeing as you changed the damper the marbles you're hearing at idle is normal if your idle RPM is a little low. Should be about 600-650. Just turn it up a little bit and you should be good.
No, you don't need a boom to barefoot but it'll save you a whole lot of body discomfort trying to learn without it. Just keep a lot of Advil handy. You'll definitely need it....LOL.
I think you get my drift.
Where are you located at? Who did your upholstery? I'm normally not a big fan of customized upholstery like yours but I have to admit that I really like it. At least what I can see of it. It's kinda difficult looking at it laying on my side but I like it. More pics of the rest of it would be nice to see.
Nice job.
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OK, im not real sure why the picture is sideways. It appears regular on my phone and computer, lets try again. Sorry, i still don't have any more pictures, but i will get some. I have no idea who did the upholstery, the boat came with it redone. All i did was the carpet. I am in cocoa beach. I see you are somewhere is orlando, where? It looks like there are quite a few members here in central florida, it would be cool just to have a mini reunion somewhere is orlando.
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Well, that didn't work. Lets try a different pic.
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I don't dislike it............. kind of up in the air about it. I honestly don't think I could do that with mine, but I like the way it looks on yours :o
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i think its cool!
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Max the boat looks awesome - well @ least the interior does :)
learn to foot without a boom - sure
but Like Eddie said the boom will certainly be a help , and the boom can be used to teach others how
to ski on skis or without
a straight boom and boom height adjuster is a great setup on that boat, add an extension and you'll never be in side spray either
long line - use a non stretch rope (which you should for wakeboarding too) and start while sitting on a wakeboard ( I have a video on youtube) you'll also need a barefoot wetsuit and barefoot wetsuit shorts under the wetsuit.
if you're really serious on learning to foot there are SEVERAL options in the greater Orlando area
us self taught guys really feel it 10, 20 and 30 years later - so find a lesson or 2 :)
Dan T
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Max A, there are a few of us in the Central Florida area. Im in Saint Cloud. Backfoot (Eddie) is in Winter Haven area.
There is a link to a map on the main page of this site (to the left) that will show you where everyone is located. Everyone who signed up for the map anyway.
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Thanks for all the comments and input guys! I got a bunch of pics yesterday, but they don't look that great. I am just going to wait until the boat is in the water again to grab some pics. They always look better that way. It looks like I'm going to wait until a boom pops up on craigslist until i try bare footing. As for the flames, i didn't really like them when i first got the boat. But they have been growing on me. Even if i didn't like them, i cant take them off. They have been glued on with something, then stitched into the vinyl of the motor box. The map shows three of us in a pretty close distance, but i remember a couple posts where people have been in this area also. I wonder how many would go if there was not so much a big reunion, but just a small meet up. Some where in orlando.
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Orlando (or in the area) and Im in
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Can somebody tell me where the wires to the alternator go? When i got the boat the green, and red wires were disconnected, and i don't think i have them in the right spot. Its overcharging above idle. I put a new regulator thinking that was the problem, but nothing changed. I have a 3 wire alternator? With 5 posts? Thanks for the help, Max
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Large #10 Orange - Alt. to eng. harness plug, then up to the dash AMP gage, then back to the eng. as a #10 red to the battery cable
Black - Alt. Ground to regulator Black
Green - Alt. Field term, to regulator green/Fld
Red - Alt. + term. to regulator Red +
The regulator should have a white or yellow wire that goes to the Purple ign. circuit
Hope this helps, RonT
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How much overcharging are we talking about?
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It would shoot up to 16-18 volts at anything over idle. I put a new alternator in yesterday, i'm going fire it up today. Hopefully that solves the problem.
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Yeah, that's high. Mine charges at 13 to 13.5 after it excites. It doesn't really vary much from that.
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Alright, i put a new alternator in, and I'm still having this overcharging problem. It charges normal at idle, then when you rev it up even the slightest bit it shoots up to 16-18 volts. I also put a new regulator in. What else could it be? Thanks, Max
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are you checking with a meter or reading gage?
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Both, and they both give the same reading. I think it might be bad, corroded wire.
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Does your boat have an "amp" gauge in the dash in addition to or instead of the voltmeter? When I re-read the original Commander wiring diagram it shows an amp gauge in the dash and poor connections there could cause this and also the "purple" ign." wire feeding the regulator may be reading low telling the regulator to step it up. This is a common area of problem as the ign. switch is notorious for burnt/corroded contacts inside. Also why I sell more & more replacement engine to dash replacement harness's.