Ski Boat Forum
Repairs and Maintenance => Boat Maintenance - American Skier => Topic started by: Ross333 on May 21, 2013, 08:49:38 AM
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I have a 1986 Advance. I just took it out of storage and was out for about an hour and it started to run a little rough. Then I couldn't get it to go above 15 mph or so. The engine sounded rough with some knocking etc. The engine generally sounded rough. The strange thing is when I take it out of gear and rev the engine it will rev up to 3500 rpm or so (didn't try to go higher) but as soon as I put it in gear it won't go. My first thought is that the gas in it is bad. It has the gas from last year in it with some stabilizer but I haven't put new gas in it yet. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
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Ross- I'm no mechanic, but- I had a similar situation a few years back. Now granted the fuel stands out but I've stabilized fuel in the past had have not had the same issue some had when dropping her in the lake after 5 months of storage when it coms to bad gas. Anyway, my issue was I had just left my boat with a local shop to convert to an electronic ignition. I was away in the service but upon return home on leave I put her in, ready to go. She ran like, what we call in Alabama, a pulp wood truck (pup wuud). Meaning, pulp would trucks are trucks with 500k miles and last tuneup at 60k. She slugged through the water occasionally spinning good and attempting plane, but then dropping back. Wide open throttle resulted in about 17-20kts with occasional backfire.
Diagnosis- bad conversion parts to electronic ignition (which you may have to check your distributer, cap, rotor and or similar parts if electrionic). After I got a new kit and installed it, she ran, and still does, great. Upon de-winterizing I usually have to pump the throttle couple of times to ger her fired, then it is a simple turn key and fire.
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I'd start with a good old fashioned tune up. Points, plugs, cap, rotor and maybe wires depending how they look. When was the last time that was done?
I don't think the gas would be a problem as long as stabilizer was added at storage but when did you last replace the fuel filter/water seperator? If that hasn't been done recently, I would change that too.
Then let us know how it runs.
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Yep... both the guys above are on it... I had the same issues and thought it to be bad gas. Turned out the metal contact inside the top of the distributor cap had fallen out and was pinging all over the place. Took a while to find & get the correct distributor cap :(
Report back on what you find!
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Ok so sorry for the delay on reporting back. So I replaced the fuel filter in hopes that by some miracle that could be the only problem. That didn't really do much of anything. It seems to rev a little better in neutral than it did before I replaced the filter but that could just be my imagination. Here is some more information about what is going on with the boat. It has a rough idle and will eventually die. When I put the boat into gear it will go to about 1000 rpms but then anything after that it doesn't want to go at all. I drove for about 1o minutes with it at around 1500 rpms and it felt like every once in awhile it would get surges of power. Nothing major but it felt like a little more gas was getting to the engine. I also pulled the engine cover off and looked at the carb while under load. The 2 primaries seem to be working fine (I don't know much about carbs) but if I understand correctly the secondaries won't open until a higher rpm. I guess my next step is to pull the boat out of the lake. As recommended by previous posts I may need to do a full tune up. I don't have a lot of experience with engines but have found that given some guidance I can figure out most problems. Is a tune up something I should do myself or is it best to take it to a shop and have them look at it? I know that a tune up may not solve my problems especially since it seems to be fuel related but it may help.
Ross
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Full tune-up is still the correct starting point, if convinced its a fuel delivery issue then an anti-siphon valve inspection would follow a tune-up.
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So I replaced the spark plugs and took it out and she ran strong for about 10 minutes or so. Then I heard some knocking and miss firing and now it isn't as bad as before but still not running well. I guess points, cap, condensers are next?
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Just replaced the distributer cap as I see I have a aftermarket electronic ignition system. I believe it said petronix? Heading back out to see how she runs.
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My bet is its the distributor cap... Where did you get the new one? Mine is a Petronix and has the screw down type distributor & cap.
Joel
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I went out for a quick cruise and that seemed to fix the problem. I got new distributer cap at a place called n3 boatworks here in Indy. They are a pretty big correct craft dealer and happened to have some parts that fit my boat. Thanks for all the help guys!
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It's amazing how many problems can get fixed with a good old fashioned tuneup but guys always want to overthink it.
By the way, N3boatworks are really good people. If you worked with a guy named Zach, he's a frequent poster at CCFan. Lots of parts on different marine engines are not brand specific.
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Joel drives the lane... its up... and... HE SCORES!!!! 8)
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Yeah I'm pretty sure I over thought this one. Yeah Zach is who helped me over at N3. Very helpful!
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Alright well now I'm really confused. So I ran it yesterday for about 45 minutes. I pulled a few skiers and it seemed to be running fine. Then it lost power again and was fighting hard once I got into the 2000 rpm area. It seemed to get progressively worse. Started out that it took longer to get on plane than it did the first few times then it wouldn't get above 2000 rpms. I heard some knocking and some miss firing as well.
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Did you move the distributor by mistake while installing parts? Sounds like it may be out of time.
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The timing could be off but I'm pretty sure the distributer didn't move. It's basically a similar sound and feel as before I replaced the distributer cap.
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Hey Ross,
If you've changed everything else, the only thing left is the Pertronix ignition module. They are a very popular conversion for the guys at CCFan, but I know of several that have had them go bad. It's probably the more popular one just because it's more readily available but I question their quality (IMHO anyway). I know that there are other brands out there so you might consider that.
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I don't believe I moved the distributer. I can check the timing if you think that is the problem.
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Im Not Saying That Is The Problem, But What Your Describing Ciuld Be Caused By Improper Timing. Priblem With That Theory Is It Ran Good For A Bit Now It Doesn't. Unless Dizzy Git Moved. Doesn't Make As Much SenseAs It Did To Me At First, All The Same A Quick Test Light CheckAnd Youll Know For Sure.
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Mike,
You said it yourself. If it ran good for a while and then started missing again, I wouldn't suspect timing. Timing issue would be there all the time.
Another thing to check would be to remove the Pertronix and the base plate in the distributor and check the advance weights and springs. They may be sticky or have a weakened or broken spring that may be causing an issue. If the weights move freely and no broken springs, I'm still suspecting the Pertronix itself is an issue.
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Eddie is on the right track - Ross where is the boat? bring it to Norris Lake and we'll get it figured out
I've sold 100s of pertronix kits and have yet to have one failure plus they carry a 30 month warranty
and parts if ever needed can be purchased directly from pertronix any how a failure
could occur with older kits that had "green tape" around the magnet ring
there was a chance if the tape was removed the magnets could come loose and fall out
so if it has green tape don't touch it
additionally if power is applied for a long period of time without any discharge the module could fail
(key switch in on position to activate the stereo)
and if it fails it fails forever and will never function again
by removing the cap, then the rotor, then the mag ring, mark the plate with a marker so you can install it exactly where it came from
then remove the screw holding the plate down , remove the module plate, now inspect the advance flyweights and springs - there are 2
the weights need to be free and the spring on each needs to be intact - hopefully they are they are the hardest part to find
the weights and springs control the advance curve
otherwise think about what else was touched like Mike stated if it worked and now it doesn't then it does and now it doesn't again
something fundamental is getting hung up
good luck
Dan T
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Another thing to think about is wiring. There could very easily be a wire that's loose, has some cracked or broken insulation or is corroded that is causing these intermittant problems. Works...doesn't work...works...doesn't work.
Might be worth your time to look at the terminal block on the engine, the wiring plug for the wiring harness that goes to the dash and under the dash itself. Also any wiring on the distributor.
Verify nothing is loose, corroded, rusted, broken, pinched or shorted anywhere. You may have to remove them one at a time to check them thoroughly. Give a tug on each one and make sure nothing is loose. It's a pain in the butt. The littlest thing might cause a problem like this though.
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Thanks for all the advice guys. I haven't had time to go out and tinker with the boat. Seems like my boss doesn't share the same sense of urgency to get this boat fixed as I do. ;) Hopefully, tomorrow I will have some time to get out there and look at some of that stuff.