Ski Boat Forum
General Category => General American Skier Discussions => Topic started by: 56mulberry on April 24, 2010, 05:42:15 PM
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Got the rest of the floor out today along with the flotation foam. Lots of garb under there and foam was very waterlogged--boat has been indoors in dry storage for 18 mos and foam was still sopping on the bottom and edges and back completely for those of you wondering if it ever dries out---NOPE!!! I am debating even putting foam back in---WAIT--before you holler at me, listen to my reasoning--when all foam was removed it filled three kitchen trash bags......and there is no way in heck that amount of foam will float ME, let alone this boat, especially if full of water.....the only functional reason I could see to replace it is to add rigidity to floor/hull and deaden sound. BUT---my foam (been in there 30 yrs now) was only halfway deep in the stringer cavity....some of it was actually loose and I was able to pull one whole section out from front to back as a single piece....so for the last 30 years I have had relatively NON-FUNCTIONING foam and other than positively soaking up water, not sure what purpose it has served---well, actually I know it is a marine requirement for manufacturers but it was at best a token sample--those cavities are just TOO small to provide any flotation--according to my calculations, if the cavities were FULL it would provide a total of about 15-20 cubic feet of flotation foam--this would form a cube roughly the size of my 351 Commander--and it would not float THAT engine, let alone a boat full of water..so anyways--we move on to sound/vibration/hhull solidness--seems only reason to replace. But I am going to remat the stringers before putting in the new floor just to add a little more sturdiness since it is all apart (and hopefully will NEVER have to be again... :-\) ANd I am thinking that will help as much as the foam to stiffen things up. Plus that foam is just no fun to work with.....
OK--so I have nearly talked myself OUT of it and done so where everyone can see/read my reasoning---can anyone offer me a reasonable argument to talk me back INTO replacing it?
Added a couple of pics for those of you have never had the joy of stripping one all the way down......I will add more pics as process continues to unfold and come back together.....D
PS-still looking for some hull graphics on a computer disc in the late 70's/early 80's bubble script style to give to my vinyl sign guy so I can replace stickers......... 8)
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COuple more pics of front...
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WOW!!! You are the man!!! Dont think I could take on such a HUGE project... Good luck gettin' her all back together! Keep posting pics of your progress... WOW!!!
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I think that boats, like most mechanical objects, are actually "less than the sum of all their parts"---by that I mean once you break them down into their individual components or systems they are pretty simple....and if you keep looking at each component as a simple process or conglomeration of simpler processes or simpler components they are not quite as overwhelming as they first seem.....that being said--next is to cut out edge of floor w/vibrating saw then remat stringers and start putting floor back in
I think I an going to make some stainless plates to go on back of rear tow loops instead of just washers adn also make some stainless plates for back of swim platform brackets. Thinking of maybe powdercoating them gloss silver to simulate polished aluminum. All the blower hoses and the ventilating hoses were in good shape so will leave them alone. Just shored them up a little better thru there respective holes.
I also untangled the rats nest of factory wiring that was massed together by a marina mechanic at some point then shoved behind the driver floorboard at some point. It is all zip-tied and wire-loomed into a nice tight rope now. There was an old piece of black plastic pipe that had come loose from the stringer and was laying in the bilge--it was for keeping wires out of water--so I will replace w/a 48" peice of gray ext sched 40 with some plastic J-clamps to run wiring under floorbaords behind driver footrest back to engine area. I just like things clean and orderly. Some marina mechanic had aslo screwed the bilge pump to the bottom of the hull... >:( ...NEXT to the metal strap that its made to be attached to...!!! Why do people do such dumb stuff?
After all that is done we will finish rebuilding carb, repainting engine--put new valvecover gaskets and oil pan gaskets and all belts and hoses and clean up some pulleys that are rusty. ALSo have a broken exhaust pipe at the joint where the angled peice off manifoldl joins to the flat tube running to rear exits under the floor.
Hopefully all will go back together just fine. I will keep posing progress and pics as I go for those that follow......D
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Did the same thing with the floor in my 86 Barefoot. I put in a poly floor instead of wood (and yes I foamed it). Lucky I used to be a butcher and got the poly for the floor for free, never rot.
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WOW is right , way to jump into this project with both feet
now is a good time to inspect the pylon / engine mount and repair or reinforce if needed
also get a hold of Ron for tips, ideas, and things to avoid (like pressure treated wood)
Dan T
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Thanks for the pics and please keep us updated! Nice work.
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any chance you could post a closeup of where the swim platform is mounted on the inside? thanks a bunch!
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I'd take my floor out, etc, as I'm sure the foam is soaked... probably find a few skeletons... buried treasure... God only knows ;) Maybe this fall for the start of a winter project.
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Been out of town & missed this post, so far so good, adding mat over the stringers will add more weight than strength, if the laminates are suspect, add woven roving or better & grind to fibers, prime w/ resin before laminating. You would not be the first to eliminate the foam, on many brands this would be a serious mistake, on these there is enough "overkill" structurally that it would work....however I have never done that nor can I reccomend going naked. When done correctly the foam is not a difficult componet to add, and will give the boat a much more solid feel & sound. In my shop the pictures indicate 25% done, the next step is all the surface grinding for adhesion & cross-linking...this is the part where my boys find something else they have to do ??? Keep up the good work.
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OK--rest of floor (last little edge) will come out this week so new can start to go in. WIll post pics of progress,,,,,D
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OK--so it did not happen June 8 as of my last post :( but am going out to shop where boat is stored to do it tomorrow night unless providentially hindered :). We shall see! D
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WOW is right , way to jump into this project with both feet
now is a good time to inspect the pylon / engine mount and repair or reinforce if needed
also get a hold of Ron for tips, ideas, and things to avoid (like pressure treated wood)
Dan T
Pylon report--after 31 years of yanking skiers and tubers by the P.O., whoever welded this was "The Man" beacuse all welds are intact on pylon frame--no cracks and pylon and stainless all-thread/U-bolts are good. I cleaned pylon frame well and polished up some w/))) steel wool because I am anal. It ready to go back in.
All else was good underneath--stringers dry and tight. Left a 1.5-2" lip of old fiberglass to adhere new floor to. SInce I am going with 3/4 inch rather than 1/2" I had to do some creative fitting so I routed down a ledge or "reveal" to allow 3/4 to slide under old floor lip (of course all old wood gone--)you will see in upcoming pic it is the resin and glass that tied original floor to side of hull.
ALso did same routing but wider in rear where floor butts against transom but had left about 4" of old fiberglass and dug all wood out from under. Fit nicely...
Got the port side done Friday and resined top and bottom. Then used it as template to cut starboard side out (boat is PERFECTLY symetrical BTW or could not have done this--they are mirror images of each other of course....see pics. Ran out of resin so could not coat that dise yet but gonna need a whole big BUCKET of resin for the rest of floor anyways.
Next step to reinstall pylon frame--was going to mat/glass edges of floor to stringer but cant reach motor mount/pylon frame mount bolts. so will just make a putty of glass and microfiber--per RonT--and basically "glue" floor down use SS screws to hold it on stringers and through leftover lip into routed wood edge. Then will mat and glass outside edge to hull with 15/18oz and 24oz mat.
GOing to also use some 1 3/4" sched 40 conduit to make a passage for the battery leads through stringer (see pic where I fit it through factory hole to tert....)so foam wont trap cables and can pull through and replace if necessary someday...
Anyways progress is being made--cant install floor until re-install transom brackets and check exhaust thru-hull fittings anyways and will pre-drill 2" holes for foam insertion and later lay a little mat patch over them.
ALso have to deal with re-installing L-seat--I think I might have to cut a 1/4" more off factory seam where I cut it to remove dur to thicker floor then will bracket and glass it back in place--then carpet and start on putting motor back in after going through it (whatever that entails--a Pandora's box possibly but I hope not....)
some pics here and will pop a few others in a reply to this thread--hope it helps others who might have to do same/similar project....just have to save up my boat allowance to buy resin, mat, and flotation foam now--none of which is free!!! ANybody know an online source/good deal for it I'd love to know about it--have done some searching but lots to wade thru...DOUG
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couple more...see the gray conduit there--will put a 45 on it and another to allow batt cable to go--obviously that piece it just to check hole size--correct one will custom fit it. The wodden bent stick there is just being used as a square to make sure both floor pieces are same distans from transom....glad this is finally happening--maybe I actually WILL have it in water NEXT Memorial day....! DOUG w/fingers crossed.
EDIT: actually that would be "wooden" bent stick....:)
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Wow! I'm intimidated just THINKING about pulling & replacing the carpet... You are DA MAN!!! ;D
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Wish I was closer man, Ive got enough THICK weave and resin to do your floor in one swoop.
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Where are you exactly? Wanna donate? 8) Gas may more economical for me than resin, mat and shipping in the long run......D
Nix that--just looked in your profile to see where you live--prolly wouldnt work...ah well, worth asking...D
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No, not when you can get 5 gallons of resin for a hundred bucks. I also got enough weave to roll the entire floor twice for another hunderd (but it was the really thick weave and pretty expensive).
See if there is a Bens paint supply anywhere near you and check it out...... never know there might be one in B-ham.
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Sorry brother, it looks like Ben's is only in the FLA
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Yah--checked the i-net and noticed. Got a couple mailorder places I can get 5gal resin for $125 or so plus shipping along with mat, micro balloons and fibers. Shouls be able to finish whole floor for @ $200-225 looks like--assuming my time is "free". I think the float foam will cost more than the floor stuff! D
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I was about 20 to 50 bucks below that, so if thats with shipping you are not doing to bad.
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OK--two coats of resin on bottoms (float foam side) of floor boards and one coat on top (deck/carpet side). ALso set ski pylon/frame back in just becfasue it makes me feel like I am further along than I actually am...... :-\
When I put floor in with resin/microfibers/mat will put another couple coats on top. Going to use 1/2" from here forward so the L-seat will have no fitment issues with height when reinstalling/glassing it in.
QUESTION: prolly for RonT-- but where should foam stop on the way toward bow? obviously it has to stop before the L-seat because battery box extends thru floor. However there was a board placed between stringers when I removed floor but it was added after for support at some point when floor was cut out and sorta replaced.... Factory foam was just sort of poured in before floor went in so it just ended there somewhere a foot or so from outer stringer. Since I was going to do a more thorough job foaming (tip bow up, pour foam in thru 2" holes every 2' then let foam run backwards and expand forward...) I have to have foam stop though before it gets to batt tray---so, maybe a 2x10 glassed and screwed to hull and stringers to contain it on that side? will try to add pic with red line to indicate area....D
OK SEE PICs FOR QUESTION AREA RE:LITTLE CROSS BRACE TO CONTAIN FOAM--one on left and right?
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How do you plan on putting the foam in, or do you? If you do...... you do know that stuff expands alot right? If you put it in an inclosed area (and put to much) it will bulge out your floor boards.
Just something to keep in mind.
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According to RonT: I am supposed to prop the bow up about 25-30 degrees then holesaw a 2" hole in floor boards between stringers every 2 feet. then starting in rearmost hole i pour in the foam and it should run backwards then expand forwards. Then I go to next hole forward and pour again letting it run back and expand forward. I guess this method fills it while letting it expand forward to keep that overexpansion from ocurring. of course being careful all along not to overfill. This should give me solid and complete fill. Then go back with some mat patches and cover the 2" holes. And final resin over it all.
Just not sure about the stopping point/place/barrier? D
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Mine is an 86 so its not the same, nut it appears there was no stop barrier in mine. It appears they let it flow out forward until it layed out on its own. It sort of comes to a point from thick to thin (which appears to me is what happened due to the filling process you described)
Don't know if yours is supposed to, but mine never had a stop point in the front.
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I never used a "foam Stop" let it run all the way forward until it comes out a vent hole as far forward as you dare drill. Battery cables can be handled either by drilling out foam later, or installing a pvc pipe to the battery box area, which is what I prefer, but be sure pipe is sealed off to keep foam out.
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SO would it be bad to create the same effect with the so-called "foam stop" and just let it vent out there in front--will the change in "solidity" be evident or negligible by stopping the foam there instead the next couple feet? Its pretty this there anyways as the stringers end and taper off and the hull bottom starts to curve up it seems.
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So I am back in the saddle finally--hoping for a Memorial Day entrance to the water. Got the ski pole frame installed back in--cleaned up some NASTY motor mounts and re-installed them and have the rear sides of floor reglassed with chop strand mat and resin. I am going to use some 2" Aluminum angle to make 4 perches for the rear floor hatch (over rudder control area) that will be nicely removeable and better than the PT 2x4 deal the prev owner had cobbled together for it to sit on. This will give me a lightweight and strong way to mount it--using 3.5" long pieces bolted to stringers then will probabaly screw down with stainless bolts into the angle which I will thread--may even try to weld a ss nut on back to make it really nice or may look for a sort of "D-ring" like some boat cargo holds have to make it easily removable. Still thinking on that one yet.
Got the transom brackets for swim platform polished and reinstralled and thru-hull sealed with some good old 5200 as well as the ss loops for tying onto under rub rail in rear--noticed they had about 3" of threadwith about 2.5" sticking thru hull and were a pain to remove because even deep well would not go over and had to use wrench so I cut them down to 1.5"--works much better!
Will do a couple more things then can resin and screw down floor boards then will foam the whole thing.
Waiting on seat base repair to be finished,
I am going to have a new pedestal bent out of SS plate (the part that screws to floor) that will be 2" taller--I noticed that the current one causes the seat back bottom to jam into the floor when fully moved backweards.
We are getting ther...will post some more pics when have time this week hopefully--D
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Floor side pieces going in on Fri--as well as foam......everyone keep fingers crossed....DOUG
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OK--floor is in (rear sides) but no foam yet--my hole saw requires a 1/2" chuck drill and mine stops at 3/8"--so have to borrow my dad's to drill the foam holes---then can pour foam
See the 2" aluminum angle that will be used as support brackets for rear "hatch" cover/floor.
I resined the floor down (as per RonT) with a combo of resin/phenolic micro-balloons/milled fibers to a thick peanut butter-like consistency across top of stringers then screwed down with 3" countersunk stainless screws to stringers and 1" screw through the "ledge" of old glass that remained on inside of hull into floor board underneath--I am using 3/4" marine ply (instead of 1/2") so I routed a 1/4" deep 2" wide recess along the edge to slide under the ledge so it would be nice and flush and gooped that full of the same stuff to hold it before installing it--then stacked concrete blocks on it and am letting it dry overnight....
Should be a very solid and waterproof bottom when done---
Notice in the 3rd pic I also added some rectangular stainless brackets INSIDE the hull on transom to my swim platform brackets--again it may be overkill but I hope to never open up the bottom of this boat again while I am living--so rather be safe than sorry. Originally it just had small washers on the thru-hull bolts.
ALso got the rear mooring hitch back on and 5200'ed (does that thing have a proper nautical term..? its not an "eye" really--more of a hook with a dead-fall keeper stay on it... the one on top of the deck directly behind the rear vent) as well as the speedo siphon/sensors back on and the stern-light pole mount on also.
Next I will use some 1708 biaxial tape about 6" wide with resin to the floor to the inside of hull all around--may wrap it over edges onto stringers also along inboard stringer--not sure if need to really--may be overkill and wont be able to where the ski pole frame, and hatch brackets are. Prob will though so it is reral solid.
This week will work on floor forward of ski pole. Seat platform is still at machine shop being re-done.
WIll hopefully also foam the floor that is in this week--getting closer to done. Still aiming for that Memorial Day deadline!!! Just happens to fall on my birthday this year so would be a cool present to myself anyways...
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Attaboy, work looks great, two things, the 1708 tape if possible get the 45/45 vs. 0/90 the strand orientation is the difference, what you want is strands at 45deg opposed to strands running lenghtwise & perpendicular (only half would be contributing to the strength) whereas 45/45deg. configures 100% of the strands working.
Second: Take your time filling the foam, you will have (4) "zones" to fill port to stb. in 2' increments going forward, fill each aft. zone then wait to expand & begin to contract or cool before going up to the next level. Filling too quickly will cause something to bulge, in your case with extra HD floors I would suspect the hull bottom would bulge out. If any of this is confusing call me, I don't want to see any problems since you've gone this far doing a great job.....RonT Shop# 985-542-4336 leave msg.
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yeah, looking good for sure.
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WOW!!! Overkill is a GOOD thing when your talking about wood in a freshwater environment... Looks like your doing a great job!! :) Be sure to replace those old white or silver "dryer" vent exhaust hoses in the transom with the proper black exhaust hose BEFORE you put the gas tank back in... Buy the absolute best quality you can get and use 1/2 again (X 1.5) as much as you need so you can get to it (with plenty of slack to work with)... cut it down to fit later. You'll thank yourself for this when it comes time to connect your exhaust hoses from the front / engine compartment to the rear vent holes :)
Mine are disconnected (rotted away) behind the tank - I have a 90 degree bend connector pipe under/behind the gas tank and I cant get to the upper connectors without pulling the tank... DRAG... :(
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the 1708 tape if possible get the 45/45 vs. 0/90 the strand orientation is the difference, what you want is strands at 45deg opposed to strands running lenghtwise & perpendicular (only half would be contributing to the strength) whereas 45/45deg. configures 100% of the strands working.
Ron--I bought 75 feet of 45 degree, 1708, 6" wide 'tape' so sounds like we are on the same page.
Regarding the foam:
1-- how much should I mix up at a time?
2-- and what is best way to pour it?--will I need a funnel or just a slow careful pour?
3-- what do I mix it in?
4-- what is the "pot" time once the two halves stir together before expansion?
5-- What is the time usually to expand, cool, contract?
Ron--you told me to go with 2 to 2.5" holes to pour it in--then I will put some glass/mat resin over them aftewards to seal.
Also--how far forward do I carry the foam process? I was thinking of going ahead and foaming aft to fore as far as the current floor is now.then when I install floor from pylon forward, I can foam the rest--I bought two gallons of foam which I think is 8 cu feet and according to my measurments I was going to prob need more like 12-13 cu ft. Figured I could get more rather than have too much....was going to do one side from aft to fore first and see how much it took then would have a pretty good idead how much more i would need.
I went ahead and thisly resined the bilge side of the stringers also down the center of boat from under the dash all the way to the transom for further waterproofing since water will most likely get in there.
How necessary is it to change out all my vent ductwork? They are all in very good condition--no cracks, holes, or breakage and still very flexy and pliable....
Right now there are three up fron going through holes in the floor baords, and two in the back by blower--where should the ones in rear terminate? Do they just hang straight down and stop a few inches above the hull and below the floor behind the fuel tank? that looks like where they are now...
On another note--was thinking of painting bilge area a nice light gray possibly, just to look clean and fresh and make easier to spot oil etc....I know it is not "stock" and I have been trying to keep this boat as original as possible but was thinking of straying on that issue with the bilge area--just from pylon back to transom in exposed and visible area....whatcha all think?
Thanks --Sorry for all the questions...DOUG
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See my post in tech for the foam pouring, as for the gelcoated bilge, absolutely, Thats std. in my shop, just be sure to degrease, scuff sand with 80-180grit. If you havn't bought the gelcoat yet see if its available in "enamal" formula they will know what this means.
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The ventilation hose forward can stay if they are in good condition as they tend to get less heat, moisture, etc... They go into the bilge under the floorboard to provide natural (non-powered) positive (pushing in) fresh air ventilation below deck and to the engine compartment. One or two may go to the backside of your heater if you have one. CG regs used to require both powered and natural ventilation - not sure what it is now, but MORE ventilation is always a GOOD thing when you have wood floors / stringers.
The aft vent hoses need to be replaced as they look aftermarket and probably dont meet spec - spec hoses typically arent white or silver - usually black. There was probably one or two 90 degree plastic or PVC pipes mounted (glassed or whatever) to the hull and/or the transom under & behind the gas tank (thats how mine is set up and its a killer to get to after the tank is in). The vent hose from the plastic rear grate/vent on the stern comes down & connects to the top of the 90 degree pipe while the vent hose from your blower connects to the bottom. This setup alleviates the weight of the entire hose length from your blower on the underside of your rear grate/vent connections (so they dont pull off) and maintains a tighter system - any gas vapor, fumes and a lot of HEAT will be blown directly out the rear grate/vent and not just circling around in your bilge. If you have two hoses hanging down, the second is probably for your natural (non-powered) negative (sucks out) ventilation - that hose should come from somewhere in the bilge (below the engine on the stbd side since the forward natural vent hose is probably on the port side - helps circulation). It should extend all the way back & connect to your second hose - again, a 90 degree PVC or other pipe connected to the hull works very well to connect both hoses.
It sounds like a pain to do, but your going through all this trouble to do it right and proper ventilation is KEY to keeping your carpet & floors dry. Once the gas tank is in... you run out of options real fast...
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OK--If I understand you correctly----so you are saying my 2 vent hoses (both the blower and the natural vent) should both attach to some 90 degree elbows back under the fuel tank essentially and then have another tube extending fore to under the engine in the bilge/engine cover area? IS that how far fore should they go? I have two hanging down--one is attached to blower and the other to the vent--both are just dangling and terminate right under the floor level right now--no 90's in sight.
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ANd also--the floor is ALL IN from the pylon back and matted one layer 3" wide from floor to lip (of old floor glass) and will put another 6" wide strip of the 1708 tape half up hullside and half onto floor and be done---also drilled the 2" holes and resined the raw edges of it so can pour foam Sat hopefully. Am going to reinforce the front half of floor under the seat area with a another layer of 3/4" ply resined and screwed to the bottom slightly larger that the footprint of the seat base so the seat base (which BTW I just got back from the machine shop--mine was the cracked aluminum style---now replaced with thicker aluminum rails) so the seat base has more wood to bite into when we screw it down.
WIll post some pics when get them off camera onto computer----DOUG
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Vent hose routing in the transom: One hose should go down & attach to the stringer approx. half way down the stringer, this is the natural vent and is suppose to draw from the lower third of the bilge. The other hose is the powered vent hose, depending on where your blower is located will determine if you have or need any elbows. Early models had the blower mounted above the tank & just had a hose running down similar to the natural vent. (again the intake for this must also originate from the lower third of the bilge) Many Advances had the blower mounted on or near the engine, a short hose on the intake side of the blower was fastened to the stringer at the magical 1/3 mark on the stringer. The discharge of the blower snakes around to a 3" pvc pipe running along the muffler & had a 3" elbow on the end against the transom with a short piece of hose connecting the elbow to the exhaust vent grill. Hopes this helps...RonT
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That is how my powered / blower ventilation is configured. I dont know if I was clear about the natural ventilation - the gist is the air is naturally forced into the port side bilge from the forward deck vent/grill - where it will collect in the bilge. The rear vent/grill will cause negative pressure (while underway) and will suck the air, vapors, fumes, etc out the back. This is important as it helps to keep the bilge area well ventilated and dry while sucking out any errant gasoline vapors, exhaust, etc. The powered / blower ventilation is much more efficient, but may fail (bad ground, etc), therefore the "natural" ventilation is a MUST...
Hope this makes sense. Lord knows you've busted your butt on this boat and the last thing I want to do is add any more WORK :)
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Sorry, I didnt answer your question... Yes, both hoses should go up into your bilge (The natural one least halfway up the stringer). Your blower hose should go all the way up & under the engine (probably have to snake it up there). You dont NEED the 3" pipe or 90 degree bends, but they are handy. You can feed the hose up the center (between the stringers) along side your rudder, shaft, etc.
Hope this helps... Joel
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SO still a little confused by verbal descriptions--I drew a rough diagram: Just not sure where the natural and blower hoses terminate--please look at pic I drew and tell me if correct or not--green hoses are x3 in fore to bilge from natural vent on hood and two in back-- one to blower and one to aft natural vent--do both of these do 90's and go ALL the way to engine cover area or does on or other terminate (or originate I guess) further back? Thanks DOUG
PS Sorry so confused on this but want to get it right.
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Should be 2 hoses in front connecting the deck vent intake & dropping into the bilge, (some did have a third but it does the same thing) The natural vent discharge hose only drops down behind the fuel tank & is fastened to the stringer about halfway down. The natural vent uses the bilge as an air plenum. The powered vent hose is the only one that has ever used an elbow. The powered vent discharge originates in the motor box area, into the blower & out to the transom vent, to make the system more durable part of the 3" plumbing is 3" pvc pipe (along the muffler) and has an elbow at the transom pointing up toward the vent with a short piece of hose connecting to the vent. Your drawing should only have one hose from the transom to the engine area not 2. If this is still greek call me. I'm in my shop this afternoon rebuilding a Volante. 985-542-4336 RonT
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Nope--got it this time--sounds good--I just need to attach the existing hose to the stringer, as you said ,and then put an elbow on the other hose and run it fore to the engine cover/bilge area. All makes sense now.
Now just have to find out how far back the rear floor/hatch needs to go--you said NOT under the fuel tank-- so should it end slightly in front of the tank but behind the carpeted board that covers the tank? About 12-14" short of the actual transom? Was going to slide it all the way back with 2 cutouts for the vent/blower hoses. But then you said no carpet/wood under the tank......?
thanks DOUG
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Doug,
YES! The floor needs to end under the rear cover board, but short of the tank. I wish mine was out of storage - I'd send ya some pics.
Sounds like you got it well in hand...
Joel
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yeah thanks--re-read one of your and RonT's old posts when I asked that question and realized it had already been answered.....thanks--DOUG
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OK--at long last the front of floor is in and screwed down and matted and resined!! ALso stubbed a PVC conduit for the battery leads so can foam fully with an issue. ANd also re-inforced the outer seat bracket area--the inner screws into the stringer but the outer just hits 1/2" plywood so I laminated a piece of 3/4" on the bottom to give it more bite for the screws and decrease flex from the seatr bracket on the floor--looks like my old one had been rescrewed about 400 times!!! this should help--see my finger pointing at the re-inforcement. ALSo put the bilge pump bracket back in--we getting there my friends...we getting there.....YOu can see my aluminum brackets for the rear hatch also..DOUG
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I was looking at the work you are doing and I noticed that your gelcoat looks to be in good shape. Were you able to get away with buffing and polishing it?
John Doerfler
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YES--gel coat is about 95% good-suprisingly considering the lack of the rest of the boat being cared for for the past 30 yrs--I DID do a lot of work on it--the gel coat that is last winter
WHEn I got it it was totallyoxidized almost white--in fact the boat looked pink at first so I hand-wetsanded the entire boat with 1200 grit then 1500 then 1800 then I used oxidation removing compound buffed out by hand 2 times then I waxed it........yeah it sucked and took me about 6 weeks of evenings but the result is pretty good looking finish on it.
ALSO got the left side of floor foamed in up to the battery box--and am ordering more foam to complet the boat--tonight I worked on re-installing the L-seat and hope to have it fitted and ready to go in by tomorrow evening. Foaming also sucks by the way....but is a necessary evil.
Here are some pics of the foaming process--a couple show the foam coming up betweent the floor/stringers/hull --you can see it filling up.
And I would have liked to get a bout 2 more feet higher on the bow but as you can see........its a little red-neck to do it like this but it worked so far!!! I just pushed the rig up on my little homemade ramps using my tractor (engine out of boat so it pretty light right now) and then we lifted it up and put the infamous "Little Giant" ladder under the tongue. ANd then we followed Ron's directions to the "T". ANd foaming really is not that hard to do and you actually have more time to mix and pour than advertised--the directions said 45 seconds total with 20-25 of it being for mixing-- I actually timed it more at 30-40 seconds to mix and then plenty of time to pour--approx one minute maybe--so not as feverishly intimidating as I thot it would be. ANyways--enjoy the pics.
The one pic is looking back under the floor as the foam is coming toward the camera like The Blob---you can see the outboard stringer cavity is full already and we are starting again in the back of the inboard cavity...
Dunno about my original Memorial Day deadline but 7/4/11 is looking very doable as long as motor goes OK......Doug
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BTW--those wooden ramps are a LOT sturdier than they look in the pics--all those blocks and 2 by's are screwed together in layers with 3" galv deck screws----in case you thought I just dry-stacked it and backed it on there!!!! ;D
ANd also--that was the first time I had taken the boat out of the shop in the outdoors in 2 years!!! It was really weird to see the whole boat at once from a distance beacuse my shop is 24x36 and when working in there I am always right up close to, or in, the boat--looked good with a little distance and perspective for a change!
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Doug, I gotta give ya your props - what a job!!! The gelcoat looks great! Are you gonna be able to get some new (old stock) American Skier decals for the sides?? The floor looks like its gonna last another 30 years with no problems :)
Keep at it brother... you are kickin' butt and takin' names!!!
Joel
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All I have to say is WOW!!!!! That looks amazing man! It gives me inspiration to get my floor replaced and my gelcoat finished. My 83 skier is in really good condition for the age and the motor was restored last summer but my floor and gelcoat have never been touched. The oxidation is moderate and the floors feel solid but I am sure the foam is soaked and needs attention. Every summer I restore a part of the old girl and this year the trailer gets the restoration but next summer I plan on doing the floors. Thank you so much for documenting this on this form. Guys like you and Ron make me love my boat even more. If that's even possible. One day I would love to see that beauty in person. Later man.
John Doerfler
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Well--I cant take a lot of credit for anything--the forum and the Ones Who Have Gone Before are the real heroes here--I am just following their directions.......very slowly...... :)
And in regard to the graphics question----just got off the phone with my designer and he is well on his way to having a file of it that will be darn close to OEM looking for me to use.
They will be white with the black edge printed in solvent-based dye and then laminated over with UV protectant laminate. Should last at least 5-7 years of hard use and 10+ of light abuse. looking forward to seeing them on the boat....
Ordered 2 more foam kits to finish up the floor next weekend and will get L-seat in also ho[pefully and fuel tank,.
Got to figure out how to get rid of 20 gals of old gas now....
DOUG
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Foam is here--and the L-seat is installed.
I decided to cut a hole in bottom of batt box so I could foam all the way to front and the hole from L-seat aft of L-seat to the seat access hole was too far to pour well. So I will pour thru hole in batt box also and then resinn and mat a patch over the foam there just like the floor. I wanted foam to fill up against batt box where it extends below the floor nicely to keep water out and seat even more solid. Should work out well I think. Am going to foam it tomorrow afternoon if all goes well. I wiil post pics when can after tomorrow.
Next I guess I rewire blower--install fuel tank after i clean it and check out fuel pick-up assembly. And rewire stern pole too.
I ordered some sample from BoatCentral/BoatCarpet.com --it came in today and I think "khaki" might look really good in it. Goes well with the cream and the orange and should really look clean in there I think--also not so light it will show much dirt either.
Then its engine time.....ugh! Hopefully that will go simply.
Have a good weekend.....DOUG
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FLOOR IS DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Now onto bigger better things....like engines and stuff................. :o
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FAN-FREAKIN-TASTIC!!!! 8)
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Cheers!!!!!
John Doerfler
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Installed the fuel tank and all of the wiring for stern light and blower
Installed the tank vent and fuel line routed and attached to stringer
Decided to re-use 32" of the fiberglass pipe and used 8" of rubber USCG to couple it to thru-hull and the muffler shop bent me some 3" stainless 45's that I will couple to the f-glass pipe then use 16" pieces of the rubber to attach the SS45 to manifold...I think it will be more solid that way and shoud sound pretty good too....
ALso realized I need to make the rear transom board (?) or whatever you call the piece of plywood that cover the gas tank area....darn thought i was done with plywood and resin.... :-\
If all goes well tomorrow I should reach the point that engine is ready to install.
I pulled the dist cap offf this morn to check condition of points and condensor and SHUT THE FRONT DOOR!!!! guess what I found under there? A Mallory electronic ignition! P.O. had changed it out at some point and I had never looked to see and since I have never even started/ran this boat had no clue it there until now that I am startign to get motor ready to re-install!!!! Yippee better than Christmas...told my wife not to get me anything for Father's day--that ignition was good enough!!
I got new plugs, wires, thermostat, some hoses for water intake and one new block drain--"T" was broken off one of them.
ALSo had a little issue with the fact that the flange on tranny oil cooler takes 1.25" ID hose from lake supply to the cooler then it comes out as a 1.25" ID hose but reduces to a 1" ID flange on the water pump...? Is this normal? SOmeone had used a piece of clear hose as a "sleeve" or bushing to enlarge the neck of pump so the 1.25" would fit but it was sloppy--I got an aluminum reducer from plumbing store meant for another purpose that will work I think.
Anyways--will try to take pics tomorrw Enjoy the Re-union--Maybe lake Martin next year.....DOUG
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Picked up an engine hoist last night (or "cherry picker" as they say here...) motor going in tonight if all goes well!!!!
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VERY COOL!!! ;D
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Engine is in!!!!!!! Finally after 2 1/2 years!!!!! GOnna try to get it all buttoned up for a test fire this weekend if possible. Still got to change impeller and some minor things........D
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Well--the engine is IN and everything is hooked up---so went upstairs and had some supper and then came down and hooked up battery and turned key and NOTHING!!!
SO did some trouble shooting and wire testing and multi-meter using and ended up finding the main ignition wire from the engine to the key switch had been spliced with one of those dreaded crimp connectors and then had heat-shrink tubing over it but one end had not been crimped in the connector but the heat shrink had been shrunk over it so it was not visible---fortunately it was not deep under the floor fore so was able to get it fixed pretty easily and voila! after a little cranking to get the fuel from the tank to the carb and POW she fired up perfectly.
Only two problems I see right now are: a fuel leak at the carb body fuel fitting that needs a different fitting--hopefully can find one at shop tomorrow-- and also it is not idling right now. I started it without the water pump being hooked up and only let it run about 30 seconds at a time (as in took the belt off the water pump so as not to damage pump impeller) and then let it cool 5-10 mins--probably oversafe but since it has been sitting 3 years I wanted to be careful.
I am running an Edelbrock 1409 rather than a Holley since the old Holley was shot according to P.O. and the Edelbrock was supposedly new (basically used a few hours then the Mastercraft/351 it was on was sold and it was removed and boxed up til I got it...) WIll see how it goes though...
HOpe to park it in the water on the trailer tomorrow or Sunday to water/trailer test and of that goes well then we will launch it and see what happens.
THEN I have to install the complete interior including all the little aluminum trim pieces, and a few other things and then on to the carpet, which i will do last, so as not to get any stainage or anything during final assembly of everything else.
In case anyone has an answer to exactly how the trans cable is routed or could shoot me a good pic of one on similar baot I would appreciate it--not sure mine is quite right...
Also--I WILL double-clamp all the exhaust couplings yet, and I am going to pull the SS elbows back out now that I have them positioned and will mark them to have my muffler guy weld some 2" spouts on the inside walls after the bend so that I can put a "crossover" pipe on the exhaust--like an "H-pipe" made out of 2" exhaust hose which should help it run a little better--kind of an old hot-rodder trick for V-8 dual exhaust improvement--might make a couple extra ponies--who knows.
Here are a few pics....
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Man! Youve come a LONG way... Looking good and the hull looks BRAND NEW! Be sure to post lots of pics of your carpet install - I'm gonna need to do mine before too long and a pictorial would be fantastic help :) No use in reinventing the wheel ;)
Your gonna need to talk with Ron or Dan about the tranny cables... Although I think Phil has the same year / setup... might help to get a few pics of how his, or Rafe's, Skier's engine / tranny are set up!!
Joel
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Looking good!!! Can't wait to see it completed.
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GOt tranny cable squared away--found a pic of "before" that I thought I lost--so "after" is OK now.
COuld not get the Edelbrock 1409 to idle plus it was leaking fuel out the bowl somewhere--so I switched the Holley back on this morning and she cranked up instantly and idled perfectly!
So we put the interior all back in and all the aluminum trim and the driver seat and a few other odds and ends took it to the lake!!!
At first it was leaking a good bit of water around the prop shaft thru-hull fitting but I realized it was the nutted kind --guess it has a graphite string wrapped around in there or something--so I tightened it 2 full turns and it stopped leaking completely and then ran it easy (maybe not over 2000 rpms?) for about 30 mins straight with a look-see under the engine cover every 5 minutes or so. Since all looked good we opened it up a couple times up 20 3100-3200 rpms.
My friend followed me in his boat in case a tow became necessary (fortunately it never did!!!) And my starbord SPeedo was working but my port speedo was not--the pitot or something is broken off the end of the pickup tube on transom....but his boat matches his GPS and at his 25mph I was 24 mph ---so it seemed close---I ran up to 36-38 with no problem at all on the speedo--assuming it stayed accurate
Now just have to order and install carpet and we will be golden! Ohh, and I have to register it this week so its legasl for the 4th...thanks everyone for all the help....DOUG
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FAN-FREAKIN-TASTIC!!!! ;D Post some pics when she's done, interior upholstery, hull, motor, carpet, etc, so we can get a full view - great job!!!
Enjoy your "NEW" boat!!!
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GUEss that thru-hull prop fitting is supposed to drip slightly to keep lubed? Not surer totally will research more.
Here is a pic of RIDE #1 !!! No side hull sticker yet to show off the American Skier name but hopefully this week that can happen and will order carpet this or next week too!!
Will post detailed pics when completely done...but enjoy this one just to prove all the hard work on my end and the expertise on the forum end and all the kind words from everyone in between are for real!!
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She is looking good man! And I really love that creamcicle color!
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Yep... every now and again hard work does pay off ;D And, yes it should leak a bit to keep the shaft lubed - which reminds me... I need to check mine :o
Cant wait for the final pics... BTW, Ron Tanis has brand new, based off the original design & right off the printer, "Skier Girl" graphics for the rear port / stbd sides... I think that year had them, but better to ask Ron.
Very very cool!!! 8)
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yes- it did have the shields at the rear with the girl on them, I removed them when I sanded the hull along with the cracked "American Skier" stickers- Ron and I have been dialoguing (sp? :-\) about the bikini girl graphic and the side-hull graphic at length for several months now--I am actually having my test fit paper "American Skier" bubble script sized and printed tomorrow or Wed and if the size and fitment is perfect it will be printed thur or fri and hopefully I can install it this weekednd for the 4th festivities!!!
I will post pics of hull graphics once I put them on the boat--and I will be ordering my bikini girl shield from Ron as soon as I get my side hull done. I am also doing a transom "outline" American skier graphic also at the same time as side hulls.
And I am VERY partial to the orange "creamsicle" colors also--in fact, when I try to explain the "tangerine and cream" color scheme to folks who have never seen it I always say--"its kind of like a melted orange creamsicle...." Funny you use the same analogy!
hioping to post a video of a driveby soon also....thanks DOUG
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Sounds like you need the new hull shield graphics now to complete her.... ;)
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Doug, Do you have port / stbd bow cleats??? I have the same style on mine & while they dont HURT anything I wish the previous owner(s) wouldnt have installed them - when they get loose, they are a PITA to tighten >:(
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YEs I do--black ones which look original to the boat--and YES they are a PITA to tighten. D
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Sounds like you need the new hull shield graphics now to complete her.... ;)
Yeah Ron--gonna get in touch with you shortly for a set of those--If my hull graphic comes out as well as I anticipate maybe we can trade a set for a set...? ;)
Letcha know---either way I will be needing a set soon. Doug
BTW ran the boat about 6-7 hours this weekend with no apparent issues
Ran 165-175 degrees all the time--165 under way and 175 when idling--maybe close to 180 if idling very long but it performed flawlessly!
My wife is an abvid competition level slalom skier from the "old days"--like the late 70's and 80's and she skiied behind it and LOVED it--said the wake was perfect and the torque coming out of water was insane.
Seems like that boat goes about 0-25 in 3 seconds! I like it.
I just have to do carpet and graphics now to get it right--will do a few more pics when done--
Oh and by the Ron--you'll have to ignore the Fly High by B.I. extended pylon--- but my boy and all his friends like to board and my wife skiis so it gives me the best of both worlds--plus can pull it off at will to "restore the intended historic integrity" of the craft......and I only gave $100 for it anyways so couldnt pass it up...... DOUG
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Doug, you may want to re-check your cooling hoses connections and your impellor pump. My boat was operating around the same temps as you describe, but gradually began to crawl upwards > 180 F. After many inspections with no real "smoking gun" for a cause, I replaced the 160 F Thermo-Stat with a 143 F Thermo-Stat with limited success. I finally discovered my impellor pump rear seal had a slow leak (causing a suction pressure drop) - this was indicated by a few drops of water a minute from the rear of the pump. After removal we found the rear seal was shot and one of the two bearings inside the pump was going bad. We replaced the seal and both bearings. Now she runs just under or at 160 F all the time :) I got lucky since we caught the bad seal and more importantly the bad bearing EARLY or it would have wallowed out the pump housing requiring a costly repair.
Joel
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I agree, that temp seems a bit high to me. Also blockage in the exhaust Mantis will do the same thing (rust)
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Manifolds are very clean and the impeller/pump is NOT leaking anywhere at all--I run just a few degrees over 160 when under way (maybe 162-163? and if sitting idling it will creep up to about 172-174ish but never over that--replaced all cooling hoses with new and checked routing against manual so I think they are OK.
Is the 165-175 range dangerous? It does not seem very hot for a V8 but I am used to cars not boats...
The ambient water temp here is near 90 right now....
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Dangerous? I don't know. What I do know is stock t-stat temp is 140 and I was told by Ron a 160 stat is good for performance.
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I dont believe its a problem, just keep an eye on it if she starts rising. The 143 F t-stat keeps mine really cool and if she can pull Dan Tanis up barefoot on a long-line then she's got more than enough power for me... not that Dan is overweight or anything... LOL!!! :) The Reunion pic of Dan barefootin' are behind my boat. He can also kneeboard with the best of 'em - the man has talent :)
Joel
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Trouble begins around 190-200 deg. usually meaning that one side of the exhaust is getting more water than the other, the dry side could be seeing 300-400+ deg. exh. temp which the rubber hoses & glass pipes won't like. Did you check the inlet side of the trans oil cooler for debris?? Remember the water is really doing 2 things in our ski boats, first it is absorbing heat generated from the engine (engine by itself is happy around 190-200deg.) the other is to keep the exhaust system (mufflers, hoses) below 200deg. If you have 140-150deg water exiting the block into the exhaust manifolds it is mixed with "bypass" water (whatever your lake temp is) and will absorb another 10-30deg. of heat from the exhaust gas.
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Yes, trans cooler clean--plus I replaced ALL hoses on the boat with the exception of the 2" one on front right of engine which I assume is the recirculating/internal water pump hose. I have clear hoses on top of manifolds (the 3/4") so can see them working well. We ran it a couple hours Sat pm and it stayed around 162-165 when under way and about 170-172 when idling for more than a few minutes but never over that......it is always between 160 and low 170's......Other than replacing the other large hose I am not sure what else could be replaced.
My exhaust is about 12" reinforced 3" rubber from the manifolds to some stainless 45 degree bends then rubber for about 10" to the old 3" fiberglass straight pipes. It stays very cool when running at the hose and the fiberglass pipes to the touch at this point.
I have no leaks anywhere--all is tight in the impeller pump also it seems.....
will keep looking. thanks DOUG
PS--Ron- still waiting on side hull stickers to be finished..... :-\ let you know as soon as they are done....
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Sounds like its running fine and mid - 70s temp is great. Mine probably runs cooler because of the 143 F thermostat :) Cant wait to see it up close & personal at the 2nd Annual :)